Scotish midwifery to ban The word “Mother”

I've just recounted and it was four capitals. The extra one was shouting emphasising that I had used no less than TWO prepositions with which to end a sentence - but was unrepentant.

I think it will go on for longer than that Elegran. Not warming up yet …

trisher

I don't like adding in because it is tautology.

Isn't the risk of tautology a tiny price worth paying if it makes more people feel happy and included? Why the need to be so dogmatic?

I don't agree that adding is necessarily tautology and I certainly don't agree that it is in this instance.

Smileless2012

I don't agree that adding is necessarily tautology and I certainly don't agree that it is in this instance.

So is a mother not a person who gives birth? If she is it's tautology.

A mother is a female (XX chromosomes) who gives birth.

Someone who has not given birth can mother a child or children. In some cases that makes them the mother (adoptive).

Males (XY) can ‘mother’ children too though I’m not sure the verb to mother is needed here. Fathering seems to me to work very well too.

Why use several words (person who …. etc) when one will do and we have perfectly adequate words already to cover all eventualities?

Doodledog and so many other GNetters, have posted on all of the threads about the gradual erosion of women, and their rights, for many months now. They've been shouted down, ridiculed and sneered at for being hysterical feminists, transphobic or TERFS. Doodledog has never once lost her temper, resorted to personal or generic insults, nor has she claimed faux outrage and claimed that she's been personally attacked in order that the discussion is deflected towards her personally.
So much good, verifiable and reliable data has been provided on those previous threads. There is a reason that younger women are becoming more and more alarmed at the slow, casual erasure of women, and all that they've fought for, over the last 100 years. Mumsnet's Feminism Boards has some articulate, well informed posters who provide each other with well researched data that simply provide an excellent resource of information. We don't appear to be able to have that forum in GN, which is our loss.

No not always. A mother doesn't have to be a person who gives birth trisher.

But science says she does have to be a female.

paddyann54

NO ONE has BANNED the word mother,its on a document that HASN;T BEEN THROUGH HOLYROOD and affects only maternity leave. Its not about trans women either ,there are many others it concerns who wouldn't get maternity leave or would have to jump thrugh hoops to get it ,,even though they are the primary carer . I do wish people would take in facts before having a meltdown.Nobody will ever stop the public from calling their mum MOTHER or whatever else they call her .

But they have. The Scottish Civil Service has agreed to delete the word ‘mother’ from all future maternity policy - so it doesn’t just affect maternity leave.

AGAA4

Pammie1
My post was ironic as I just find it ridiculous to change wording.
We could change fathers into 'sperm donors' just as bad.

Yep, I agree. But I don’t think you’d get away with that - not on the agenda.

@Alegrias constitutionforscotland.scot/constitution.

Pammie1

@Alegrias constitutionforscotland.scot/constitution.

Dedicated to conducting and administering a public consultation on the content and subsequent promotion into legislation of a Constitution endorsed by credible numbers of Scottish citizens.

We don't have a constitution.

Wish we did.

trisher

I don't like adding in because it is tautology.

Too clever for me trisher

Smileless2012

No not always. A mother doesn't have to be a person who gives birth trisher.

We went throught his discussion before so here's a brief summary. The person who gives birth may or may not want to be called mother. Besides transmen who are having babies some women do so as surrogates for another woman, some women intend to give the child up for adoption .These women do not wantto be called 'mother' believing that title belngs to the person who will raise the baby. The term "person giving birth" covers every eventuality. Anyone who wants to be called mother can be.

And your definition, as wordy and patronising as it is trisher was, is, and forever will be, wrong. Please explain why you know so much more about genetics, human biology and procreation than Professor Robert Winston. I'd be fascinated to learn of your recognised qualifications in the field.

Yes we've already had this discussion so here's a brief summary. Regardless of whether or not a woman who gives birth wishes to be a mother to her child, wishes to give that child up for adoption or as a surrogate, has had that the child for someone else, at the time she gives birth she is that child's mother.

An alternative reality:

We went through this discussion travesty before so here's a brief summary different way of looking at things. The person who gives birth may or may not want to be called mother. Besides transmen who are having babies some women do so as surrogates for another woman other people, including gay men, homo and heterosexual couples and single men, some women intend to give the child up for adoption .These An unspecified number of these women do may not want to be called 'mother' believing that for reasons of their own, which may include a belief that the title belongs to the person who will raise the baby. The term "person giving birth" covers every eventuality removes the word 'mother', and with it the idea that only women are female, and as such, members of the only sex capable of giving birth. This suits the TRA agenda, which is to erase women as a sex, and replace us with a 'gender' that includes anyone who identifies as female, whether that may be on a permanent or temporary basis. Anyone who wants to be called mother can be, but sooner or later it will be seen as reactionary and anyone wanting to use it will be insulted and shouted down as 'transphobic'. Another brick in the wall.

trisher

Smileless2012

No not always. A mother doesn't have to be a person who gives birth trisher.

We went throught his discussion before so here's a brief summary. The person who gives birth may or may not want to be called mother. Besides transmen who are having babies some women do so as surrogates for another woman, some women intend to give the child up for adoption .These women do not wantto be called 'mother' believing that title belngs to the person who will raise the baby. The term "person giving birth" covers every eventuality. Anyone who wants to be called mother can be.

So actually it's not tautology because if the women giving birth do not think of themselves as the mother, then adding in 'other birthing person' is quite different. Or are you agreeing that the female body that births a child is in fact the mother?

Doodledog ????

To the ones saying the world’s gone mad etc. It only goes mad because we allow it, stop pandering and bowing to this nonsense. Everyone is so scared of offending someone. Being offended doesn’t mean they’re right. Just say No and carry on.

Just say No and carry on

If only it was that easy..... Kathleen Stock tried it.

Since the 1960’s it’s been increasingly rare for women to choose to give up their children for adoption. The awful prejudice towards ‘unmarried mothers’ and their children changed that. In recent years it’s been increasingly common for some women to choose to have children alone. Marriage isn’t seen as essential before couples have children.
Adopted children and adults usually refer to their adoptive mother as mum, their birth mother as exactly that.
I’ve not met a birth mither who chose to relinquish their child for adoption who didn’t want to be known as mother. Letters to go with their baby are often signed using mummy/mum/tummy mummy/birth mother. This recognises the significance to the child and her birth mother of their relationship.
Focus on ensuring the rights of trans adults should detract from the emotional and psychological significance of that relationship

Doodledog I agree with every sensible word you say.

I am awarding you this trophy for *Woman of the Year who talks straight, insults no one and is the voice of reason’ ?