Binders. The world has gone mad.

I’ll hunt the research out tonight and post them here - they were invented for cis children to slow down very early puberty, and the children then went along to mature at a ‘usual’ time. It’s only the cross sex hormones that actually change anything on a fundamental level, and they’re not prescribed until 18.

I’ll post links and summaries after dinner!

Cis children - is that a first?

I don’t think so, Riverwalk. I’d imagine there’s rather a lot of them about.

from the ngs website
"Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria."

nhs. ,not ngs

AmberSpyglass

I don’t think so, Riverwalk. I’d imagine there’s rather a lot of them about.

I've never heard of the term 'Cis children'.

Oh, sorry! I didn’t mean to use jargon, I thought it was a fairly well known term now.

“Cisgender” just means the opposite to transgender, ie the sex the doctor wrote down on your birth certificate is the same as the gender you are now.

cis...is a term many find offensive.

Cis anything is Tautology. If something is the same as it always was, there is no need to point it out.

My eyes are cisblue and I am cisrighthanded. Water is ciswet, but dust is cisdry.

No different from heterosexual vs homosexual.

Puberty blockers have been used for children with early onset puberty for sometime.They have also been used in the US for children who were noticeably shorter than average as they do enable extra growth.(although this isn't recommended) They have side effects these depend upon how long they are taken for and the health advice supporting their use. So they can cause bone thinning resulting in early osteoporosis, but most think this can be alleviated by dietary supplements and exercise whilst on the drug. Like most drugs they need to be taken with proper medical supervision. Some early onset puberty patients have taken them for years the earliest I found was aged 5 until she was 9.

AmberSpyglass

I’ll hunt the research out tonight and post them here - they were invented for cis children to slow down very early puberty, and the children then went along to mature at a ‘usual’ time. It’s only the cross sex hormones that actually change anything on a fundamental level, and they’re not prescribed until 18.

I’ll post links and summaries after dinner!

Thank you. I would be interested to see them.

Not the same as cis-anything at all, amberspyglass.

Heterosexual means attracted to people of the other sex - male to female, or female to male, homosexual meals attracted to people of the same sex male to male or female to female. Neither word refers to the sex that someone is themselves.

FWIW, I also find the term 'Cis' offensive when used without consent, and bristle when anyone expects me to use it about myself, as I am not Cis - I am a woman and I know what that means.

I can see, however, that in the confines of a discussion about a situation that involves trans children we might need to have a jargon word that describes non-trans ones, too?

I did a fair amount of business with Lush. Earlier, this summer I stopped buying things from them. Two other people I know have done the same.

Elegran

Cis anything is Tautology. If something is the same as it always was, there is no need to point it out.

My eyes are cisblue and I am cisrighthanded. Water is ciswet, but dust is cisdry.

Perfect response Elegran.
I’m not cis anything either because I am a woman.

Important facts:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:

Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%

It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%

It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

So yes we need to support trans children and young adults because not doing so is harming them severely.

VioletSky

Important facts:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:

Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%

It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%

It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

So yes we need to support trans children and young adults because not doing so is harming them severely.

What!!!!?????

GagaJo

AmberSpyglass

It isn’t young girls who are wearing binders - it’s young trans men and non binary people.

Exactly. These children are resorting to taking matters into their own hands, having been denied access to support elsewhere. The consequences of making trans support harder and harder to access. Of course, covid hasn't helped either.

I think the word ‘children’ is the most obvious thing in your post. They’re children and they should be protected until they are mature enough to make decisions that will affect the rest of their lives. What we’re really talking about is parental control. Since when was this a bad thing ?

I think it is always helpful to look at historical patterns and there is no doubt that women have restricted their bodies for various reasons at different times.

This is utter nonsense. There IS no historical pattern for what’s happening now, but by all means let’s make it up to support crap theories.

VioletSky

Important facts:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:

Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%

It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%

It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

So yes we need to support trans children and young adults because not doing so is harming them severely.

But of course, more important even than this is the opinions of others who are not involved!

Why would they give binders away? Can’t understand anyone wanting one. Refuse to buy from Lush, everything smells sickly. It would have to be a sheet to flatten me.

Indeed Pammie1! And whilst we're at it, let's encourage young girls to nip into a soap shop and buy a binder for £7 that, according to NICE, is discouraged from being used on adults because of the long term damage it causes. How non harming is that?

Pammie1

*I think it is always helpful to look at historical patterns and there is no doubt that women have restricted their bodies for various reasons at different times.*

This is utter nonsense. There IS no historical pattern for what’s happening now, but by all means let’s make it up to support crap theories.

Exactly this.

VioletSky

Important facts:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:

Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%

It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%

It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

So yes we need to support trans children and young adults because not doing so is harming them severely.

That's interesting.

Can you give us some idea of the research methodology here, please?

eg how were suicidal thoughts counted, and against what metric was the reduction of 34% measured? That sort of thing.

Or a link to the study if you can't remember how the researchers arrived at these figures.