Binders. The world has gone mad.

Does anyone out there think that we’re exposing our children to these issues much, much too early ? Anyone ?????

Doodledog

VioletSky

Important facts:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:

Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%

It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%

It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

So yes we need to support trans children and young adults because not doing so is harming them severely.

That's interesting.

Can you give us some idea of the research methodology here, please?

eg how were suicidal thoughts counted, and against what metric was the reduction of 34% measured? That sort of thing.

Or a link to the study if you can't remember how the researchers arrived at these figures.

@Doodledog. I had the same thoughts and despite quite a long time googling I can’t find any actual statistics. There have been some US studies which make vague references as to why it’s important, but a lot of the stuff is from people I wouldn’t necessarily hold up as experts in the field. I can’t find anything to support the statistics quoted or the methodology.

Yes, I do, Pammie1 - particularly if they are getting help from Lush behind their parents' backs.

I can see that if a child is distressed about their development then help needs to happen in a timely fashion, however, and they do start puberty very early these days.

It's tricky. I have no idea why there has been such a proliferation of young people wanting to transition, and I have to say that I suspect dark forces at work, and would not be surprised to find that somewhere there is a lot of profit being made, but the children themselves are not to blame.

I would prefer them not to be taught in school that there are over 100 genders, and I would definitely ban the sale of binders to pre-pubescent children, and put them on a prescription-only basis.

I think I would prefer there to be no private clinics for transitioning young people, so that there can be proper guidelines that are not based on profit, but this is very far from being my area of expertise, so I could be persuaded otherwise on that one.

Pammie1

Does anyone out there think that we’re exposing our children to these issues much, much too early ? Anyone ?????

'This' doesn't come from outside influences. It is internal.

@Doodledog. I had the same thoughts and despite quite a long time googling I can’t find any actual statistics. There have been some US studies which make vague references as to why it’s important, but a lot of the stuff is from people I wouldn’t necessarily hold up as experts in the field. I can’t find anything to support the statistics quoted or the methodology.
That comes as no surprise, but thanks.

Pammiel, I don’ t know enough about how we are exposing our children to these issues. I’ve read about some parents, usually for religio7s/cultural issues, objecting to what I see as age appropriate books, for example, that depict families as diverse, not all white, with one mummy and one daddy.
I’m not sure how much exposure children are getting to trans issues in school
I’d be unhappy if One of my granddaughters was expected to share a dorm at Guide or Brownie camp, with a male child whose parents insisted he was female. It’s my understanding, in those situations, the other children and parents wouldn’t be informed.
I’ve no worries about age appropriate information
.

Doodledog- I’ve no doubt research will identify the dark forces before much longer.

Pammie1

Doodledog

VioletSky

Important facts:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:

Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%

It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%

It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

So yes we need to support trans children and young adults because not doing so is harming them severely.

That's interesting.

Can you give us some idea of the research methodology here, please?

eg how were suicidal thoughts counted, and against what metric was the reduction of 34% measured? That sort of thing.

Or a link to the study if you can't remember how the researchers arrived at these figures.

@Doodledog. I had the same thoughts and despite quite a long time googling I can’t find any actual statistics. There have been some US studies which make vague references as to why it’s important, but a lot of the stuff is from people I wouldn’t necessarily hold up as experts in the field. I can’t find anything to support the statistics quoted or the methodology.

Say anything positive about transpeople and we will challenge you. On the other hand we can use single instances of attacks by someone who might be trans, or individual stories of detransition to prove our points..
Honestly it's pathetic.

Sorry I forgot to attach links to earlier post.

news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/

www.washington.edu/news/2016/02/26/transgender-children-supported-in-their-identities-show-positive-mental-health/

* Say anything positive about transpeople and we will challenge you. On the other hand we can use single instances of attacks by someone who might be trans, or individual stories of detransition to prove our points..
Honestly it's pathetic.*

That’s a stretch !! I don’t think anyone has said anything negative about trans people on the thread. What HAS been expressed is legitimate concerns about what are basically children being encouraged to go behind their parents’ backs to buy something which may or may not be damaging to their health. No one is denying the right to be trans or saying it’s wrong - far from it. But please, try to recognise that this company hasn’t got these young peoples’ best interests at heart - their parents have.

trisher, do you really mean that if we say anything positive about transpeople you will challenge us? And the rest of what you say? Do you really mean you will use single instances of attacks by someone who might be trans to prove your points? Is the ‘our’ you mention referring to you and GJ?
That’s what you say. Sometimes I find your posts totally confusing.

VioletSky

Sorry I forgot to attach links to earlier post.

news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/

www.washington.edu/news/2016/02/26/transgender-children-supported-in-their-identities-show-positive-mental-health/

Thank you. I'll have a look.

Mollygo

trisher, do you really mean that if we say anything positive about transpeople you will challenge us? And the rest of what you say? Do you really mean you will use single instances of attacks by someone who might be trans to prove your points? Is the ‘our’ you mention referring to you and GJ?
That’s what you say. Sometimes I find your posts totally confusing.

It's called sarcasm Mollygo I realise some don't understand it.

trisher

Mollygo

trisher, do you really mean that if we say anything positive about transpeople you will challenge us? And the rest of what you say? Do you really mean you will use single instances of attacks by someone who might be trans to prove your points? Is the ‘our’ you mention referring to you and GJ?
That’s what you say. Sometimes I find your posts totally confusing.

It's called sarcasm Mollygo I realise some don't understand it.

?

No problem Doodledog

Those links lead to quite old research VioletSky, do you have anything more recent please?

They arent that relevant to the current cohort because the increase in F to m has been very recent and there doesnt appear to be any research on that specific group. I think you would also need to look at the studies from European countries who from what I understand have moved to the wait and see model and away from the affirmation approach.

I also dont know what to make of the recent statements from two of the leading surgeons in gender reassignment in the states who are calling for caution. I dont even know where to begin with that.

Trisher, so was mine. The difference is that you either told the truth or lied with your sarcasm. Now let me guess. . .???

Galaxy

I also dont know what to make of the recent statements from two of the leading surgeons in gender reassignment in the states who are calling for caution. I dont even know where to begin with that.

Do you mean David Bell and Robert Winston?

If so, yes, they are world-renowned experts who are very concerned about gender reassignment, and as far as I can see neither has any vested interest.

Chewbacca

Those links lead to quite old research VioletSky, do you have anything more recent please?

Thank you for asking politely but if 3 and 4 years is old I must be ancient.

No I don't without going to look and it's bedtime for me.

You could try googling keywords to find something more recent but I'm not sure there will be much newer than 3 years with the pandemic going on.

No I dont think so isnt David Bell from the tavistock? These are two American surgeons, I read a very recent interview with them. I will see if I can find it.

Marcia Bowers, US surgeon, has carried out thousands of gender reassignment operations, and has just started to say hold on something may not be ok here. I am so conflicted about how I feel about this but obviously marcia is very experienced in the field. I am conflicted because I want to shout maybe there was an earlier time to say this?

Ohh maybe it was better when men were men and the sheep were nervous.

No VioletSky they're 5 years old and that's a very long time in the current climate with the trans gender issues having increased so much in the last couple of years. I won't be Googling the research to support your theory because, as Galaxy pointed out in her post at 22.09, there has actually been very little research done lately. I'm more interested in knowing more about the provenance of the stats that you provided:

Parents simply using a trans child/teens preferred pronouns:
Reduces symptoms of severe depression by 71%
It reduces suicidal thoughts by 34%
It reduces suicide attempts by 65%

What is the source for this information? Who did the research and how recent is it?