Binders. The world has gone mad.

Surely the point of all this is that Lush are selling potentially damaging items to minors, behind their parents’ backs and encouraging youngsters to be underhand, when they could be having open and honest discussions with trusted family members about the issues troubling them.

Geez trisher! If you don’t know the difference between what condoms are used for and what binders are intended for I despair. I imagine your sex education would be around the same era as mine or possibly earlier. In case you missed it, condoms are to help prevent the transmission of sexual diseases and to reduce the possibility of unwanted pregnancy. Problems arise if they are inadvertently swallowed or, -I think you said a 2% failure rate.
“*Most of the problems with binders are reversible*”-so you admit binders can cause problems but you still advocate children picking them up from a bath product seller where they wont be told how to use them properly.

Condoms don’t alter your body.

There really is no connection and you’re only doing it to divert from the discussion.

Condoms prevent (or may fail to prevent) harm.

Breast binders cause harm.

Like a sticky plaster to prevent infection (here’s a free one, it might not stop you getting blood poisoning but it’ll help) as opposed to a syringe of heroin (this will harm you but it’s what you want so that’s ok by me)?

Trisher, I think it was you who made a link between contraception and binders. Others disagreed that they were parallel. Now you are saying that because condoms can fail, and are free, binders should be allowed.

Or something . I'm struggling to follow the logic.

Mollygo

Geez trisher! If you don’t know the difference between what condoms are used for and what binders are intended for I despair. I imagine your sex education would be around the same era as mine or possibly earlier. In case you missed it, condoms are to help prevent the transmission of sexual diseases and to reduce the possibility of unwanted pregnancy. Problems arise if they are inadvertently swallowed or, -I think you said a 2% failure rate.
“*Most of the problems with binders are reversible*”-so you admit binders can cause problems but you still advocate children picking them up from a bath product seller where they wont be told how to use them properly.

I admit there are problems with both binders and condoms Mollygo I simply question the cultural norms which make one of these acceptable and the other unacceptable.
Many feminists think it's patriarchal values that ensure the free provison of contraception but not of period products, that is slowly changing with Scotland leading the way.
But the fact is there is a 15% failure rate when a condom is used incorrectly, something that is more likely to happen to younger users.
Children are being given free contraception, which you are fine with, but they have to buy binders, yet both have potential to change their lives.
Contraceptives prevent unwanted pregnancies. Binders make girls feel better, more confident and happier. Both have their upside and their downside.

I'm not totally fine with children being given condoms, really, but I'm less fine with them being given binders, and I struggle to accept that it may be another step down the path of allowing children too much freedom to make the wrong choice (because they are children)

You have a really skewed logic here trisher. Comparing condoms to binders is like comparing apples to oranges. They're in no way comparable. Condoms prevent sexually transmitted diseases and prevent unwanted pregnancies. Ipso facto, they are a preventative product. Binders flatten breast tissue. That's all they do. They don't prevent anything. They cause harm. Particularly on young, undeveloped breast tissue.

No! You don’t get it trisher.

Sorry, got called out on an emergency.
If you say the damage caused by binders is reversible that means they cause damage.
Whatever, they shouldn’t be given to children by a soap shop.
The damage caused by not using condoms is far greater than the damage caused by not using them. I’m not totally OK with children being given condoms, but at least they are taught about the use of condoms.
You are actually advocating children being given something potentially harmful because the harm is reversible.

Re condoms-Far greater than the damage caused by using them.
Oh for an edit button!

The harm only happens if the binder is misused. There is heaps of info available on how to use them.

trisher

The harm only happens if the binder is misused. There is heaps of info available on how to use them.

And the likelihood that a young girl will be meticulous in measuring herself and using the binder and not damage herself? There is heaps of info available on how to use condoms, yet you think misuse will be something that is more likely to happen to younger users. So won't the same apply to binders? Binders that can cause irreversible damage.

trisher

The harm only happens if the binder is misused. There is heaps of info available on how to use them.

Oh that’s ok then. As we all know, there’s heaps of info available telling people the risks of using sun beds but many young people (usually girls if we are allowed to call them that) seem unable to follow the advice. They get skin cancer as a result. But hey ho, it’s up to youngsters to risk assess for themselves,

Rosie51 you added an excellent post at 18:54, but I fear it will be wasted.
trisher, you are still actually advocating the use by young girls, of something that can be harmful, because the harm is possibly reversible. Unbelievable.

It's illegal for people under 18 to use sunbeds or get a tattoo, for good reason.

I think we are all agreed that it's completely unsuitable for a soap shop to be distributing body altering garments and we all recognise that binders have the potential to be damaging, apart from Trisher.

It isn't just trisher. It's just that she's the only one with the patience to tolerate all the bigotry and machinations of arguments.

Don't be under the impression she is the sole supporter of trans issues. Most people just don't have the patience to deal with the (trying to think of a non rude word) discussion.

bigotry
No bigotry whatsoever, Gagajo

Just a genuine concern for children, especially those who need real help.
Not the kind of help being aided and abetted by a smelly bathbomb company who are just out for profit.
The kind of help from professionals who know what they are doing,

You don't have to be a specific gender or sex to care about kids wellbeing!

Exactly Calistemon!

I dont know what anyone else here thinks but I think that a child worrying that they might want to transgender needs love, professional help and guidance.

What they don't need is a two-bit cosmetics company with absolutely no experience of the process aiding and abetting them to hide their worries from their parents, carers and struggling on their own without being referred for professional guidance.

GagaJo

It isn't just trisher. It's just that she's the only one with the patience to tolerate all the bigotry and machinations of arguments.

Don't be under the impression she is the sole supporter of trans issues. Most people just don't have the patience to deal with the (trying to think of a non rude word) discussion.

Bigotry :
noun: bigotry; plural noun: bigotries
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction;

So an obstinate belief in the fallacy that people can change sex and 'become' the opposite sex qualifies................what other belief system demands that non believers have to validate and adhere to it? The last time that was in force was..........
The "1558 Recusancy Acts" began during the reign of Elizabeth I, and while temporarily repealed during the Interregnum (1649–1660), remained on the statute books until 1888. They imposed punishment such as fines, property confiscation, and imprisonment on those who did not participate in Anglican religious activity.

You scatter the words bigot and bigotry around like confetti, and like confetti your accusations have no substance at all.
Most of us have a live and let live attitude, as long as certain safeguards are observed, and want everyone to live a happy life. We just object to compelled adherence, and we won't stand by silently when children are being harmed in the advance of that compulsion.

In 1933 there was a clinic in Germany treating trans people the Nazis shut it down.
Much more relevant than an Act which was actually rarely applied and simply provided local bigwigs with the opportunity to line their own pockets by fining recusants. Catholics survived and in some places thrived.

Rosie51 I was about to comment on GagaJo’s use of the word bigotry, but you have done it so much more efficiently. Thank you.

Can you not see the difference between a medical Clinic and a soap company, trisher?

Very worrying.

Nazis now ....
Oh dear

Evidently not Calistemon and now trisher sidesteps into history, which whilst interesting as a subject has, like the flowers that bloom in the spring, tra-la, nothing to do with the case.