Binders. The world has gone mad.

I asked my DD for her view, this is what she said: 'People with gender dysphoria will always try to make their bodies less “female”. Whether it’s wrapping bandages or something with their underwear. I think Lush is offering a safe space to get one, especially when households might not be supporting of their choices. '

Indeed lush are well known for their expertise on child development, body dysmorphia, medical issues, etc. A shop that sells absolutely awful products should be guiding society on this issue.

But should children be given ‘safe spaces’ to get things of which their parents disapprove? That’s maybe a whole new thread in itself, but in general I think that children should be protected from those who would encourage them to do anything that is potentially irreversible and/or harmful, whether or not the child wants to do it.

Making difficult decisions is what parents are for, even if the child reverses them as soon as they are old enough. IMO this is nothing to do with safety- it’s exploitation of the vulnerable, and I can’t believe that any parent would support it.

What’s next? safe spaces to take drugs? sell sex? get tattoos?

I understand the principle of harm reduction, I worked on a needle exchange, there was quite a lot of research on what kept drug users safe, I am still not sure it was the right approach. There has been no research on the unexplained increase of female to Male transition that has happened in recent years, it is too recent an occurrence. If I was advocating this I would need to be completely sure, because if I was wrong well its unthinkable.

Harm reduction is good, but where children are concerned there is a fine line between that and overstepping the mark into parental responsibility territory. I believe that letting teenagers have a small amount of alcohol under supervision is harmless, for instance; but I always checked with parents if that was ok with them before allowing my children’s friends to drink it in my house. Ditto videos with 15 certificates when they were 12. If they said no, that was that. It’s not for Lush to make decisions, with no knowledge of the situation or the vulnerability of the children, about things that should involve parents and potentially mental health professionals.

Particularly at a time when some of the leading surgeons in terms of gender reassignment are saying I think there might be a problem here.

Some people in the west deplore practices from other cultures which damage girls e.g. FGM, whilst approving of practices which also damage girls, when it supports the current trends. How hypocritical can you get?

I think the difference Mollygo is that FGM is performed violently without consent on the female child and is IMO part of a misogynist culture carried out by often ignorant and poor peoples, whereas chest binding is a choice taken by individuals that do not feel they identify with their gender at birth.
As a parent of boys I have no idea how I’d feel about it my own child used one. I’d hate that they wouldn’t feel comfortable to talk to me about it and would go through something so major without my support so we could figure it out together. It would be difficult and I don’t altogether understand, but I’d learn for the sake of my child

I think the difference Mollygo is that FGM is performed violently without consent on the female child and is IMO part of a misogynist culture carried out by often ignorant and poor peoples, whereas chest binding is a choice taken by individuals that do not feel they identify with their gender at birth.
As a parent of boys I have no idea how I’d feel about it my own child used one. I’d hate that they wouldn’t feel comfortable to talk to me about it and would go through something so major without my support so we could figure it out together. It would be difficult and I don’t altogether understand, but I’d learn for the sake of my child

I was a huge fan of Lush and their earlier incarnation of Cosmetics To Go for many years. I stopped buying from them because of a previous campaign of theirs that I could not condone or support.

But this one is far worse and I actually wouldn’t be sorry if it’s the end of them. Handing out body modification devices to impressionable children and young people without proper medical or psychological care is beyond irresponsible.

I hope any staff coming into contact with these children have had full safeguarding checks.

When the white people do it there are reasons. Those people over there well they are just the ignorant ones.

Learning for the sake of your child can only happen if you are told it's happening though.

If your hypothetical daughter goes to Lush and gets a binder that she uses without your knowledge you are denied that option.

For all Lush knows, a child may be getting psychiatric care which could be undermined by the wearing of a binder. At the very least, it is normalising a condition that was rare a generation ago.

I've yet to hear a convincing explanation as to why so many children seem to be 'born in the wrong body' nowadays, when the condition was so unusual in the past. If it is an actual condition, surely its prevalence wouldn't be so dependent on attitudes and acceptance?

Agreed, Maggiemaybe. With all of your post, including my past love of Cosmetics To Go - particularly their Ginger perfume ?

I hope it finishes them off, too, and that their staff, who already have one of the most awful training regimes, are redeployed with a more enlightened company.

I agree Maggiemaybe. I stopped buying there because of previous promotions. This has to be the worst yet. If these garments are to be worn at all, and I'd really hope they wouldn't be worn by anyone but informed adults, then they need proper fitting and sound advice, not a measure yourself at home and hope for the best.

I've yet to hear a convincing explanation as to why so many children seem to be 'born in the wrong body' nowadays, when the condition was so unusual in the past. If it is an actual condition, surely its prevalence wouldn't be so dependent on attitudes and acceptance? Doodledog this is mentioned in one of the Stephen Nolan podcasts which I'm listening to.

Doodledog this is mentioned in one of the Stephen Nolan podcasts which I'm listening to.

Thanks. I have them lined up ready to play, but haven't got through all of them yet.

Thanks. I have them lined up ready to play, but haven't got through all of them yet.
Me neither, they're fascinating and so informative.

Actually DillytheGardener, try to picture it this way. If at a local shop boys like to frequent, e.g. sports or games, there were scrotumn binders issued to boys who think they want to be girls, the use of which would harm their development and possibly render them infertile, wouldn’t you want to know about it.
I’m glad you aren’t naive enough to think your boys would want to discuss it with you if that’s what they’d decided to do and could do it without your knowledge.

Mazamer07 at 07:46

Your daughter is very right.

I know of many cases of teenagers who are non binary and want binders.
Some talk to their parents, child and parent go to doc and the doc said to ahead,give guidelines and no permanent damage will happen

It's a cosmetics shop selling over-perfumed goods.

Parent and child going to visit a GP together is different; however, many GPs will not have adequate, if any, training in this and the first referral would not be to buy an off-the shelf binder from a High Street shop which is more a psychological aid than of any medical help.

I know of many cases of teenagers who are non binary and want binders.

Is this your area of expertise and do you work in that field Hithere?

Hithere, I think the interest centres on how young girls' freedom is restricted by a for -profit company implying it is proper to bind their breasts.

PS Young girls are often impressionable and accept advice from all sorts of unreliable people.

Yesterday an ex colleague told me that her Gdd of nearly 13 has really taken on board all the trans stuff she’s hearing at school, and is insisting on being called by a completely different boy’s name.

They are just going along with it. Since she’s never remotely shown any such tendencies before, they rather assume it’s an aspect of adolescent rebellion, plus a desire to shock and appal the boring, stuffy old parents/grandparents.

So they’re resolutely not showing any shock or appalled-ness.
‘That’s fine, dear,’ is more the line they’re taking.

Calistemon

^I know of many cases of teenagers who are non binary and want binders.^

Is this your area of expertise and do you work in that field Hithere?

May I also ask you, Hithere, what it is that these children have in common other than that they identify as non-binary? Are they Autistic? Do they have a history of sexual abuse? Eating disorders?

How is it that you know so many? I'm guessing that there must be a reason why they are in the place they are in (which is probably what they have in common), for you to be aware of this aspect of their lives, and I'm wondering if the reason for that could explain why they feel as they do.

Caleo

Not restricting their freedom - I would say give them another option they can exercise if they want.

Those girls are not forced to go and grab one - it is their choice