University degrees

Our nephew has an English language degree, masters in Poetry a PGCE, masters in education and is now studying for Ed Psychology.

He claims he will be earning 40-60k when he qualifies in 3 years, how much has all this cost and how long to pay it back?

He was offered an apprenticeship at 16 with a German car manufacturer, his parents thought it was beneath him.

Good point, M0nica. The OU has moved on a lot since the 6.00am TV lectures by men in kipper ties?.

From what I have seen, employers are often very keen on OU graduates as they are experts in time management and meeting deadlines whilst also working full-time.

some people are good at academic study, others learn best through making and doing

Spot on M0nica, there should be more apprenticeships available in plumbing, electricians, gas engineers etc instead of funnelling all students into university degree courses that not all of them are suited for and not all of the courses very much use:
Surf Science and Technology
Viticulture and Oenology (wine)
Floral Design
Cities
Horology
Psychology of Fashion
Hand Embroidery
Puppetry Design and Performance
Stand Up Comedy
Golf Management
Bagpiping
Ethical Hacking???
Circus and Physical Performance

I agree Hetty. This is an old bone that is taken out an chewed on so frequently it has become boring and often tasteless.

So I will say what I will always say. If you don't think tertiary education (including the apprenticeships at that level) is a "good thing" then why teach children to read, write and do maths? After all we could have them digging ditches and picking fruit or whatever is left that doesn't require knowledge.

Times have changed and the needs of both the employer and the employee have changed. Career paths have changed too. The need to be able to learn and knowing how to aquire that knowledge is one of the most sought-after attributes looked for in employees. Whatever the scuttlebut between you and your friends whose Janet or whose John did this or did that it is a truth that most people with degrees end up earning more than those without - and they have better health.

Why do you want to cut off the world of learning to them. What are you afraid of?

Sago

Our nephew has an English language degree, masters in Poetry a PGCE, masters in education and is now studying for Ed Psychology.

He claims he will be earning 40-60k when he qualifies in 3 years, how much has all this cost and how long to pay it back?

He was offered an apprenticeship at 16 with a German car manufacturer, his parents thought it was beneath him.

I don't know how long it will take to pay it back, but education is not just about earning power, or filling job roles - it is about expanding your interests and developing as a person.

When your nephew qualifies and changes lives by working in Ed Psych will he be wishing he was working in a car factory, even if he has no debt and a higher salary?

Why do you want to cut off the world of learning to them. What are you afraid of?

Exactly my view.

And Ethical Hacking degrees are in demand from companies who want to protect their systems from unethical hacking attacks?

JaneJudge

You can access university courses and degrees with Btech qualifications anyway

It's a shame BTech courses are being abolished when T levels are introduced.

Sago

Our nephew has an English language degree, masters in Poetry a PGCE, masters in education and is now studying for Ed Psychology.

He claims he will be earning 40-60k when he qualifies in 3 years, how much has all this cost and how long to pay it back?

He was offered an apprenticeship at 16 with a German car manufacturer, his parents thought it was beneath him.

It's not a debt. If he doesn't earn enough he won't have to pay it back. It's more like a tax. If you don't know these things how can you help? I presume he had good teachers and, by the sound of things good parents to help him. Why sneer?

growstuff

JaneJudge

You can access university courses and degrees with Btech qualifications anyway

It's a shame BTech courses are being abolished when T levels are introduced.

I agree growstuff. They were an excellent way forward for many and left their options open.

The law, certainly in the City, remains a very snobbish bastion of requiring a degree from a ‘good’ university. I even remember one of my partners refusing to interview a candidate for a training contract because her name was Tracey, without considering her academic qualifications, I kid you not. She wasn’t interviewed.
My son took his degree at the LSE and tutorials were rare. It certainly taught him to think for himself. Some sank, others swam. He could have gone to Oxford with its system of cosy tutorials in small groups but doesn’t regret his decision and is now a partner in a major City law firm (without using any connections of mine). His experience taught him a great work ethic.

Doodledod The job was not in a factory, it was a mechanical apprenticeship, he was passionate about everything concerning cars and engines.

He was pushed into a degree, he wanted to work as a copy writer but failed so decided to do a PGCE, he hated teaching.

He is a square peg in a round hole.

I would take the list of degrees more seriously if the person writing it had researched the courses, found out where past students had found employment and the marketplace attached to them.

But hey, let's just guess shall we!

I don't understand T levels, what will happen?

I would love to do an hand embroidery degree, I'm pretty sure it is quite rare though? and what s the alternative? Indian children sitting over UV lighting embroidering for our fashion and homes?

No doubt you could research that yourself PippaZ I dare say there's a happily employed, studious bagpiper somewhere or other.

Sago

Doodledod The job was not in a factory, it was a mechanical apprenticeship, he was passionate about everything concerning cars and engines.

He was pushed into a degree, he wanted to work as a copy writer but failed so decided to do a PGCE, he hated teaching.

He is a square peg in a round hole.

Oh. Well in that case it is clear that he was ill-advised, although why he didn't make his feelings clear before doing all of those unwanted degrees is a mystery. Can he not stand up for himself?

I feel for him, but his case doesn't make a university education valueless.

PippaZ

I would take the list of degrees more seriously if the person writing it had researched the courses, found out where past students had found employment and the marketplace attached to them.

But hey, let's just guess shall we!

Exactly! The only course in Surf Science and Technology is at Plymouth and isn't a degree course, although it could lead on to a full degree.

Maybe people should look at what's involved:

www.plymouth.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/fdsc-surf-science-and-technology

It could be a route to all sorts of careers, including tourism, controlling coastal erosion, coaching and much more.

JaneJudge

I don't understand T levels, what will happen?

I would love to do an hand embroidery degree, I'm pretty sure it is quite rare though? and what s the alternative? Indian children sitting over UV lighting embroidering for our fashion and homes?

T levels are A level standard, but in more practical subjects. They are more theoretical than BTechs, so require a higher standard in English and Maths. I believe the minimum entry level will be five GCSEs at 4/5 or above.

And here are some alumni stories from people who did a degree in hand embroidery:

royal-needlework.org.uk/success-stories/degree-graduate-alex-standring/

growstuff

PippaZ

I would take the list of degrees more seriously if the person writing it had researched the courses, found out where past students had found employment and the marketplace attached to them.

But hey, let's just guess shall we!

Exactly! The only course in Surf Science and Technology is at Plymouth and isn't a degree course, although it could lead on to a full degree.

Maybe people should look at what's involved:

www.plymouth.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/fdsc-surf-science-and-technology

It could be a route to all sorts of careers, including tourism, controlling coastal erosion, coaching and much more.

Someone we know took that course, he's worked around the world and never been out of work; he has done extremely well.
It's not just learning to balance on a surfboard.

I even remember one of my partners refusing to interview a candidate for a training contract because her name was Tracey, without considering her academic qualifications, I kid you not. She wasn’t interviewed.
GSM
Was it Tracy, Duchess of Somerset?
DD has a friend called Tracy, she's terribly posh (much posher than us!) ?

Here you go pippa:

www.thepipingcentre.co.uk/

Why shouldn't student learn bagpiping instead of playing the flute or violin?

Apologies - she is Tracy Somerset, Duchess of Beaufort.

I know somebody whose son did the course too Calistemon. It's highly respected and he now works as an ecologist, specialising in coastal erosion. Previously, he worked overseas managing surfing schools.

Adding to what I said earlier about my niece deciding not to go to university this year, I am very proud of her for sticking to her plans to get a post A level apprenticeship in an field she has been interested for a while. She started saying that she had no plans to go to university when she was 15 even though her school and father were pushing her towards it. She stood her ground, worked hard through all the school closures and problems with sitting exams to get the top grades possible in her A levels and Btech courses.

Apprenticeships at this level are very hard to get but she did her research and found out how to apply and worked on her cv and letter of application with my daughter who works in the same type of job. All this while her dad was putting pressure on her to go to university, arguing and shouting matches took place, threats about having to pay rent etc etc. But her determination won him over and now her parents are also proud of her achievements, she loves what she is doing and is growing in maturity as she mixes with older people in the workplace.

The company she works for does not have a very good reputation for job retention, my daughter says she would never work for them but hopefully my niece will have gained enough experience in two years to be able to find the next level job elsewhere.

Has she given in and gone to university I reckon she would have dropped out by now! However successful a child is at school does not mean that university is the best fit. It’s a shame though that there are so few of these higher education level apprenticeships, or indeed any apprenticeships, as it is very hard to get a place.

JaneJudge

I don't understand T levels, what will happen?

I would love to do an hand embroidery degree, I'm pretty sure it is quite rare though? and what s the alternative? Indian children sitting over UV lighting embroidering for our fashion and homes?

We lived near The Royal School of Needlework, JaneJudge and they did short courses but I never managed to go there, the DC were very young at the time.
A friend's daughter did do a degree in textiles and design and has done some exquisite work for films etc.

growstuff

I know somebody whose son did the course too Calistemon. It's highly respected and he now works as an ecologist, specialising in coastal erosion. Previously, he worked overseas managing surfing schools.

Yes, this young man managed surf schools etc, I wasn't sure what he's doing now but just checked and he has added to his credentials with a PhD in physiology.
It all started with a surfboard .... ?‍♂️