Assigned female at birth

Doodledog

In my opinion you are not being at all unreasonable. I don't know about PC going too far, but 'assigned female at birth' it is such a ludicrous phrase that if I got such a letter I would write to the head of my NHS trust and ask for it to be stopped.

Women need smear tests, because they are members of the female sex. Sex is not assigned, it is endemic. It is determined at conception, not at birth.

Could not agree more. How ridiculous.
You really could not make this rubbish up.

Because you don't notice the other ones. Do you?

Anybody know why?

Aveline

Something tells me this person wasn't assigned female at birth. I wonder how all the women of America feel about this.

Why are transwomen nearly always tall?
You very rarely hear of smaller blokes wanting to transition to female.
It's nearly always the hulking big six footers wirh heavy obviously masculine facial features who seem desperate to become women.
Little men would make better looking
more believable feminine looking women.
Tis a mystery.

I think for the sake of other female groups we need language to be simple and understandable. I'm not sure assigned female at birth is simple. I don't find it offensive though. I am a bit sick of repeating myself but lots of women in this country struggle with literacy and language needs to be inclusive for them too.

I would have thought the reason for inviting someone for a smear is to detect and prevent cervical cancer. The recipient will probably know whether they have a cervix but a simple explanation could be added, eg “cancer of the womb”. The NHS has a challenge to increase uptake of smears and using phrases like “assigned female at birth” is not going to help. Use of jargon in medical/clinical settings is shocking, yet we wonder why people have no understanding of how their body works.

Something tells me this person wasn't assigned female at birth. I wonder how all the women of America feel about this.

Herefornow, thanks for your advice on what we need to learn. However people with a dsd (intersex is not really the term that is preferred) have begged not to be dragged into this debate, many find the use of their medical condition to prove some sort of point really offensive.

So what are men = cockers ?

VioletSky

I don't think I'd be very secure as a woman if an advertising slogan made me feel reduced in any way.

They are free to advertise as they wish, whether they are successful or not is all the feedback they need.

TBH, I was more offended by the idea period blood could be represented by blue water as if red was something to be ashamed of.

Or the thought that we'd all be off rollerblading in white trousers if we just used the right kind of sanitary towel.

That advertising for you, mostly silly

Fair enough, you don't mind being referred to as a bleeder. Makes me wonder why words such as woman and female are so triggering to some, I guess they're not as resilient as you. Which rather suggests any adverts that say smear tests are required by women or females will be equally acceptable, and anyone who takes offence is being silly. Same as breast feeding, pregnant women etc etc.

I don't think I'd be very secure as a woman if an advertising slogan made me feel reduced in any way.

They are free to advertise as they wish, whether they are successful or not is all the feedback they need.

TBH, I was more offended by the idea period blood could be represented by blue water as if red was something to be ashamed of.

Or the thought that we'd all be off rollerblading in white trousers if we just used the right kind of sanitary towel.

That advertising for you, mostly silly

Do you not find the term 'bleeders' in any way distasteful or offensive VioletSky? Sorry but I do. It's reducing women to a once a month biological process. Most people defecate once a day but it's not a term in general use, when did you last see "defecators, why not consider product xyz?" Andrex have never resorted to 'defecators (aka people who sh*t) this is the best toilet paper ever.'

I think a simple look at mumsnet and the amount of trans topics versus other issues is very enlightening. Not just the amount of thread topics devoted to trans issues, the amount of comments on those thread topics.

That's what concerns me. While we are being led down the garden path towards trans people being the cause of all women's issues, many topics are being left behind.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-139414-2fce74f8-d252-4dc5-bfc1-8b20679a1e8f-4-5005-c.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-590904-86dc4eae-8e73-4f9f-9a6b-d95fee585ef6.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-21296-5d78dbab-f4ae-4d35-a86e-d49a7a1da5a7.jpeg

This is just a sample.

"Bleeders" so nice, so inclusive.

For those unaware Herstory was developed because women were frequently omitted from history. Ironic eh?

JKR is the devil incarnate and her objectors are so rational. This was the most inoffensive post I could find.

Herefornow

Your science is a bit dated rosie1. There are dozens of combinations of chromosomes that exist and have been observed. They might not be very common but they very much do exist.

Wow, so someone has discovered identified, and had peer review of the third (or maybe more) sex!! Nobel prize on the way! Can you name this individual who has proved beyond doubt that humans have a third sex?

Nobody would deny there are some chromosome variations from XX and XY. None of them denote a third , or more, sex. Every single person on the planet earth, past and present, has been formed from the fusion of a small motile gamete from a male sex person and a large immotile gamete from a female sex person. Unless of course you know and can demonstrate differently.

Doodledog

and removes the idea that 'woman = adult human female' in favour of 'woman' is a subset of men'.

Doodledog, I don't understand this, can you explain? Asking sincerely.

I don't see what women have to be eradicated in favour of transmen. I take your point about erradication in language. I don't understand the part about women being a subset of men.

I wish women who fear oppression would be more aware of their potential to oppress another group while fighting for their own standing. We could be on the same side. We should be, imo. Trans folk who transition know more about massive hormone fluctuations than many would think. There can be sympathies and lessons shared.

and removes the idea that 'woman = adult human female' in favour of 'woman' is a subset of men'.

Realistically it's just a true statement.

Granddaughter gets the important screening she needs and so do her peers in transition.

All good

What does it matter to you what a stock letter uses for salutation, OP? Don't you have better things to do with your life?
If terminology should be irrelevant to women (and being bothered by/interested in something is not indicative of having nothing better to do with one's life, incidentally), why is it important to transmen? Why should women be eradicated to appease transpeople? Linguistic eradication is important, as it removes the ability to discuss concepts in a meaningful way, and

Your science is a bit dated rosie1. There are dozens of combinations of chromosomes that exist and have been observed. They might not be very common but they very much do exist.

And 1-2% of our several billion global population is intersex. there is no such thing as 'intersex' and most people with DSDs object to the term. There are two sexes, male and female, there is no third sex. Every living organism that relies on sexual reproduction splits into two defined sexes. Even where some expected functions are absent it is still possible to ascertain which sexual pathway an individual was on.
Sex is real and is immutable. That's science, that's fact.

Callistemon21

What's wrong with "You are invited for a cervical smear test"?

Yes, short, to the point, and common sense.

Assigning a gender sounds like tossing a coin to decide which team a baby should join.

Babies sex is observed in the UK. Any uncertainty is decided by testing.

Callistemon21

It is ridiculous and worrying because someone could answer that they may have been assigned female at birth but they now identify as male so wish to turn down the appointment.
That could cause problems for them in the future if they refuse to attend.

I do understand what you are trying to say with this, and it's a relevant sentiment, but i think it more likely that trans men would respond better to the term 'assigned female at birth' than to the term 'women'. Reverting to referencing the term women, alone, surely puts this trans men at greater risk than the term being currently used?

There is often an air about these things of 'well, in that case it'll be their fault for choosing to live that way'. Much the same attitude was had about gay people and hiv back in the day.

What does it matter to you what a stock letter uses for salutation, OP? Don't you have better things to do with your life?

I've actually never met a trans person who denied that sex is real. The issue is with gender. You are assigned a gender at birth based on what is known or observed about your sex. This is where the language about 'assigned whatever at birth' is talking about.

However, if we want to talk solely about sex and the facts of sex? Did you know that actually not everyone has xx or xy chromosomes? No really, look it up. This has been proven. And 1-2% of our several billion global population is intersex. That's about 400k people in the UK.

Just food for thought.

YANBU pinkprincess.

There's no need for such a letter to say 'because' anything but, if it does, it should say that the person is female.

(Any transman or non-binary person who can't cope with being reminded that they are female, really needs some good psychiatric help.)