To have been upset by this encounter today

Hithere

People now live longer
As they live longer, health issues come along that mobility accommodations

Parking lots are usually built many years ago, and the law hasn't caught up with current demand

Posters insinuating young families are entitled and their needs matter less are pointing the finger to the wrong party

Nothing to do with people living longer because blue badges are not issued on the grounds of simply being elderly - there has to be a disability present. I don’t think anyone is saying that the needs of young families matter any less, but my issue is that some young parents really do see themselves as entitled to park in a blue badge space if there are no parent and child spaces available. This is wrong. Parenting is a choice, disability is not and while I agree that the needs of parents shopping with young children, should be considered, they should not be seen in the same light as those of someone with a disability which causes pain and difficulty in movement. I have the same issues with a significant number of parents with children shopping in my local supermarket, who seem to think that it’s perfectly acceptable to take them into the disabled toilet because of the convenience of the layout. They never stop to consider that someone in a wheelchair has to wait, because they don’t have any choice as a wheelchair doesn’t fit into a standard cubicle. It’s about co-operation and respect for each others’ needs, and speaking from the point of view of a wheelchair user I find most people to be very kind, but there are exceptions and it’s not pointing the finger at the wrong party because it does happen and unless you’re at the receiving end of it, it’s hard to appreciate the frequency with which it happens.

VioletSky

The car parks near me all have disabled places closer than parent parking and all have empty disabled spaces when I visit showing that they are always available when needed.

It's a shame to hear that isn't true everywhere

It depends on where you live I think. In my experience disabled spaces are usually available in car parks and at various venues - it’s the supermarket and shopping area spaces that are taken up very quickly.

Far too many people with disabilities and /or elderly seem to think that they must take total priority over everyone else.

Sorry, I’m a wheelchair user and I just don’t agree. In my experience it’s parents who have that attitude much more than the disabled. I couldn't tell you the number of times I’ve been waiting to use the disabled toilet to find that the occupant is a mother doing a nappy change. In my local supermarket the P&C spaces are much nearer the door the the blue badge spaces. Why is this necessary - blue badge holders are often struggling with pain and severe mobility problems but apparently prams and buggies take priority these day, and I regularly see parents parking in P&C spaces, leaving the children in the car while they go in to the shop - not what they were meant for.

The car parks near me all have disabled places closer than parent parking and all have empty disabled spaces when I visit showing that they are always available when needed.

It's a shame to hear that isn't true everywhere

Our local M&S food doesn’t have a very big car park. Recently I had to drive round and wait a bit for a space. As I was walking in I saw a lady get out of a big Range Rover parked in a p&c space. I said ‘you haven’t got a child with you’. She said, well I usually have!!!

The problem with this logic is that it’s circular. If it’s okay to use p&c without a child because you’ve seen parents use blue badge spaces, then surely you can see someone else will apply the same logic and say, well then, it’s okay to use blue badge spaces as I’ve seen people with badges in p&c spaces

Parking lot, sorry

It was a combination of several factors for sure, not so much a wider space.

Rush hour, too many cars in the parking space, a kid thinking that cars in the parking lot are toys and too young to understand the danger, already dark....

It would for sure help have a secure area next to the car, lighting, warning signs for cars to slow down, rubber floor bumpers, ...

Hithere

Pammie1

I can say that, sadly.
It was too unsafe to take kids out of the car and the stress wasn't worth it.

I had to replan to go at a time when I knew it was more convenient crowd wise

If a wider space had been available somewhere further away from the door but with a walkway would that have worked for you?
Just wondering how all the different needs can be accommodated, while prioritising blue badge holders.

People now live longer
As they live longer, health issues come along that mobility accommodations

Parking lots are usually built many years ago, and the law hasn't caught up with current demand

Posters insinuating young families are entitled and their needs matter less are pointing the finger to the wrong party

Pammie1

I can say that, sadly.
It was too unsafe to take kids out of the car and the stress wasn't worth it.

I had to replan to go at a time when I knew it was more convenient crowd wise

Having read a lot of the comments on the thread, can I put this into perspective as someone who uses a wheelchair. There isn’t enough room in an ordinary parking space to open the door wide enough to accommodate opening the door to get out a wheelchair and sit in it, then wheel around the car. So if I need to go shopping and can’t find a wide disabled space, I have to go home. There have been occasions during the pandemic when I have visited three different supermarkets and haven’t been able to find a space to park. I do appreciate the need for parent and child spaces on grounds of safety, but how many parents can truthfully say they have had to go home empty handed because they can’t find a suitable place to park ?

That's the problem. While most parents sensibly view parent and child spaces as a nice concession there are a minority who view them as being on a par with blue badge spaces and adopt a view that they can't possibly be expected to park in sn ordinary space, even if it means depriving a disabled person of their right to go shopping.

These parents are a huge problem. As usual the minority spoiling it for the majority.

Grandpanow

I don’t think it’s reasonable to get angry- but I don’t agree it’s reasonable to use a p&c space if you don’t have a child either. The spaces are labeled for a reason to serve different needs.

I would agree if I didn’t regularly see parents with children taking up blue badge spaces when there are no parent and child spaces left. The sense of entitlement is breathtaking. Hence, I don’t get angry, I just have no compunction in parking in parent and child bays if I need to.

VioletSky

MissAdventure

Fair comment.
Just that some need a,whole lot of help to be able to join in with the rest of society and live their lives.
It doesnt take anything away from someone to acknowledge that the level of help varies.

Of course but there are so many comments here questioning the need for parent spaces at all and I agree that need exists even if some can't see how that is safer and easier for parents.

I remember when my now adult children were little, those spaces didn't exist and it can be quite dangerous managing a wonky trolley and children.

If someone started to reverse into me on my own I'l could jump out of the way but when someone did that with my children, I had to bang on their car because I couldn't get all of us out of the way in time. They rightfully got very thoroughly shouted at. That wouldn't have happened with parent bays.

Weird the memories that stand out as strongly as that one.

Same thing is true for disabled people. I have had several experiences where drivers have reversed out of parking spaces directly at me as I am lower on the road than they can see. so how is this different ?

VioletSky

People can and do go through awfu lthings and difficulties but life is not a competition on who has it worse, life is about empathy and understanding for each other.

Most of us would hold the door for the next person, or go out of our way to open a door for a disabled person or a mum struggling with a baby and a toddler. We wouldn't even think. Why would how we park be any different?

Parking spaces can and have been provided for disabled people and parents. This is thoughtful and conscientious of those who provide them. The car parks alsoo belong to those organisations on private property. So if they have chosen to provide specific parking, that should be respected

I really do understand what you’re saying but speaking as someone with a lifelong disability which renders me wheelchair bound outdoors, I have to disagree somewhat. I agree that parents with children should have convenient parking spaces but I absolutely do not agree that those responsible for providing them are ‘conscientious’ when I drive into a car park in my local supermarket and find that most of the spaces nearest the doors are for parent and child. As a PP has said, someone with a disability doesn’t have a choice - if there are no spaces in a disabled spot they can’t do their shopping. This does not apply to someone with a child - evidence of which I see most days when I observe children sitting in cars parked in parent and child spaces.

Heartbreaking MissAdventure. What was her name, or would you rather not say?

MissAdventure

My daughter was a parent through all her struggles, too, incidentally.
Her youngest was 1 week old when she was diagnosed.
So.....

MissA I knew a little of your daughter’s story but not this bit. I am so sorry.

Yes I think if they were in the main body of the car park, near a trolley bay and with a walkway or path provided, and spaces at the door were reserved for blue badge holders and then elderly people it might stop a lot of the aggravation and hassle.

I'm all in favour of parent spaces.
Weird that they're often closer than disabled bays, and nobody seems sure on the etiquette or rules, which doesnt help either.

Hithere

Ethical world is a dangerous statement if it means somebody's rights get denied for what is perceived as something worse

Well we have to be either an ethical or an unethical society.

To me an ethical society is one that looks after its more vulnerable members. So access to public places for disabled people, provision of shelter for those who are homeless, supports for those who are mentally ill etc

Obviously though there will sometimes be competing needs. For instance mothers with young children wanting spaces by the door, elderly people who don't have blue badges wanting spaces by the door.

Those decisions often come down to common decency, sharing of resources and showing a bit of compassion. They're rarely helped by people shouting over each other.

MissAdventure

Fair comment.
Just that some need a,whole lot of help to be able to join in with the rest of society and live their lives.
It doesnt take anything away from someone to acknowledge that the level of help varies.

Of course but there are so many comments here questioning the need for parent spaces at all and I agree that need exists even if some can't see how that is safer and easier for parents.

I remember when my now adult children were little, those spaces didn't exist and it can be quite dangerous managing a wonky trolley and children.

If someone started to reverse into me on my own I'l could jump out of the way but when someone did that with my children, I had to bang on their car because I couldn't get all of us out of the way in time. They rightfully got very thoroughly shouted at. That wouldn't have happened with parent bays.

Weird the memories that stand out as strongly as that one.

Some things arent just perceived as worse.
They are.

My daughter was a parent through all her struggles, too, incidentally.
Her youngest was 1 week old when she was diagnosed.
So.....

Ethical world is a dangerous statement if it means somebody's rights get denied for what is perceived as something worse