Reached the end of my piece of string

well some people are blessed with the fairytale mother, not necessarily perfect in every way, but loving and giving throughout childhood at least. those people feel, somehow, that they have the right to tell others how they "should" behave towards their mother, who may not have been so free with her love in childhood, but who now knows which "buttons" to press and how to press them to engender guilt in their adult offspring. why would anyone want to treat another person in that way? not out of kindness for sure!

My sibling and I don't agree on much but as I was grappling with guilt, she said, "The trouble is, Mum hasn't got much love saved in the bank due to her treatment of both of us as children." I'd never thought about it like that before but she was right. I think I had some FOG (It's called FOG, Fear of Guilt.)

^ Social services are in my experience,with my own 91 year old mum useless. It’s so easy to say they have capacity. Capacity for what ?^

SS tend to take what is said by the person being assessed as being the truth. My mother is totally deluded about her abilities and puts herself in danger. Even with a Dementia Diagnosis, she is allowed to make unwise decisions which may kill her. The duty of care is handed straight back to the family. Our SS said Mum didn't have capacity to make decisions about her care, the Discharge Team in hospital disagreed because they asked her about her circumstances whilst none of us were around. We had a struggle to get them to reassess with the correct information, i.e. she didn't have stairlifts but was a danger to herself on the stairs, she couldn't even make a cup of tea let alone get all her own meals and she couldn't walk at all without support and even then would often collapse needing help to be called. It was just a joke.

Unfortunately it's not Social Services fault that people with Capacity can't be forced to accept help. It's the Law. Its supposed to protect people from being taken advantage of, financially and physically. Its part of the Safeguarding Process. You'd be surprised the amount of relatives as well as strangers that try to control adult people who have capacity but are too scared to stick up for themselves.

MaggsMcG

Unfortunately it's not Social Services fault that people with Capacity can't be forced to accept help. It's the Law. Its supposed to protect people from being taken advantage of, financially and physically. Its part of the Safeguarding Process. You'd be surprised the amount of relatives as well as strangers that try to control adult people who have capacity but are too scared to stick up for themselves.

I realise it is the law but it really depends who applies the test, how well they know the testee and how truthful that person is. The difference between the hospital (who are desperate to empty beds) and the SW is that the SW scratched below the surface. It wasn't in the Hospital's best interests so they didn't bother. The tests really need looking at again!

Icanhandthemback. It’s a minefield isn’t it. My mum has fallen down the stairs in her first floor flat suffering a brain haemorrhage amongst other things. She was assessed without me being there, and sent home without an OT assessment. The OT brought her home, but left before I could get there !
She’s since been very difficult, and is taking lots of risks. I feel they’ve just washed their hands of her and we’re just waiting for the next accident.

My thoughts go out to you, Katyj . The worry you go through and it just seems that you are totally unsupported in these situations. We had the argument so many times with the hospital but the last time, the SW intervened. We had already arranged for self funded Respite Care (as suggested by the SW) but still the hospital argued. I think the system borders on criminal.

Alittlemadam

Get social services, local safeguarding team, her gp or local police to do a welfare check on her that way she will get the help she needs and give you a break in the meantime

Why? It is not their responsibility. The responsibility lies with her family.

I’m in a similar situation. My mother won’t have anyone in her house and the care worker just leaves it up to her. I take her twice a week to a craft club and visit twice a day every day nothing is ever right. I’m told how stupid, I am I’ve no standards, I’m useless etc etc. I don’t do housework as I can only just cope with mine but I seek shopping, carry bags compost, take recycling post letters etc.
I could write a book
good luck to anyone in my situation

I meant the care manager just leaves it up to her as my mother is mentally able

Ethel

Why do you choose to be abused daily... only you can change your life and day enough

GrammyGrammy

Alittlemadam

Get social services, local safeguarding team, her gp or local police to do a welfare check on her that way she will get the help she needs and give you a break in the meantime

Why? It is not their responsibility. The responsibility lies with her family.

Why is it the family's responsibility if she won't accept help or is abusive? I'd understand if the abuse was a new thing but this is a long standing issue.

I wouldn't waste time on a parent who has always been abusive. If the abuse comes from some condition of age like dementia, I can understand a child continuing to visit.

As an adult, surely you can take a step back, view the situation dispassionately and then take control of the relationship and make it conditional on good behaviour.

I did not have abusive parents, but from childhood, I constantly tried to get my mother to understand why I did what I did. She constantly questioned me why i made the decisions I did and I kept trying to explain, because I wanted her to understand, but without making progress. At a certain point I realised that if I explained to the end of time, she would never understand, so I just accepted that we would never have the closeness to her I desired and just stopped trying to answer her questions with any belief they would get us anywhere and accepted the status quo.

One asks oneself how we got to a place where adult sons and daughters don't see that looking after a parent in their nineties is their sole overall responsibility. We do not honour our parents and see that their welfare and care is down to us. We are so narcissistic and selfish that it has become optional whether we bother with them. On this thread the amount of suggestions of lying and telling untruths is noticeable. Lying to your family is a good thing in this day and age it seems. We lie without guilt or shame to get the result we want. It seems the parent has to pass a 'nice person' test - subjective in the extreme and easily skewed to suit our selfish wants- and this will decide if we grow old suffering living alone and in squalor or be brought into the bosom of family life and treasured as a precious family member. I cannot see how anyone in their 90's should be living alone uncared for 24/7. I think many of the gransnetters here have hearts of stone- groomed by our compartmentalising and elder rejecting and selfish culture.

GrammyGrammy
When those "children" are in their 70s and in poor health themselves how can they be expected to be carers.
The problem is often caused by the stubborn refusal of those in their 90s to accept a need for care from those outside their families.

I can barely believe I’ve just read the post from GrammyGrammy. It shows a total lack of understanding of the situation between some elderly parents and their children, who are often in their late sixties or seventies themselves. The care of the enormous number of people in their nineties (who a few years ago would mainly have not even still been alive at that age) does not, and cannot fall exclusively on to the shoulders of people who are hardly young themselves. Add to that, that some of these old and frail people are not even pleasant, and in some cases were not good parents themselves when their children were young, and it is easy to see why many people in their late sixties/seventies simply can’t look after their old parents.

maddyone

I can barely believe I’ve just read the post from GrammyGrammy. It shows a total lack of understanding of the situation between some elderly parents and their children, who are often in their late sixties or seventies themselves. The care of the enormous number of people in their nineties (who a few years ago would mainly have not even still been alive at that age) does not, and cannot fall exclusively on to the shoulders of people who are hardly young themselves. Add to that, that some of these old and frail people are not even pleasant, and in some cases were not good parents themselves when their children were young, and it is easy to see why many people in their late sixties/seventies simply can’t look after their old parents.

I am describing what should be the starting point- a true engagement with responsibility. of course gather help and services and support around the situation- but honouring and making sure your elderlies are alright is on you as the adult child of an old person. I understand fully. I live it. Try ten years living in with an autistic narcissist who gaslights daily and has no love and made life choices that harmed the adult children dreadfully. Yet doing the right thing is the thing.

Are you describing my mother GrammyGrammy? Of course you understand if that is your situation but your post did appear to indicate a lack of understanding. Maybe not everyone has your ability to continue to care after they have been abused during their formative years. Also looking after a person in their nineties when you are in your seventies is impossible for many. I’ve done the right thing by my mother even though her behaviour in the past would indicate that she doesn’t deserve it. I do the right thing, but I resent it because of what she did to me years ago. I do the right thing because she’s my mother, that’s all. But I resent it.

Franbern Completely off topics, but, as a retired ward sister, I was horrified that a nurse would ring a relative and berate them for not visiting!

GrammyGrammy

One asks oneself how we got to a place where adult sons and daughters don't see that looking after a parent in their nineties is their sole overall responsibility. We do not honour our parents and see that their welfare and care is down to us. We are so narcissistic and selfish that it has become optional whether we bother with them. On this thread the amount of suggestions of lying and telling untruths is noticeable. Lying to your family is a good thing in this day and age it seems. We lie without guilt or shame to get the result we want. It seems the parent has to pass a 'nice person' test - subjective in the extreme and easily skewed to suit our selfish wants- and this will decide if we grow old suffering living alone and in squalor or be brought into the bosom of family life and treasured as a precious family member. I cannot see how anyone in their 90's should be living alone uncared for 24/7. I think many of the gransnetters here have hearts of stone- groomed by our compartmentalising and elder rejecting and selfish culture.

We are so narcissistic and selfish that it has become optional whether we bother with them.

So having ruined your childhood with lasting damage that lasts through your adulthood, you thing that your parent should then trash your retirement. If you don't, you are selfish.

I cannot see how anyone in their 90's should be living alone uncared for 24/7.

Nor do I but they too have choices. The parent makes their choice, the child is entitled to make theirs. Why should your choices rely on a negative affect for your child?

^ On this thread the amount of suggestions of lying and telling untruths is noticeable. Lying to your family is a good thing in this day and age it seems. We lie without guilt or shame to get the result we want.^

Wow, you've obviously learned a bit about gaslighting!

Incidentally, I have been looking after my abusive mother (who didn't look after us after the age of 7 for most of the year) for the last 10 years. Before that I looked after my Grandad with his dementia in my own home until he died, when my mother refused to. There is such a thing called Karma. I have had to admit defeat and put my mother in a nursing home because it was starting to impact my role as a mother and grandmother to my disabled daughter and autistic grandson. When you bring a child into the world, your duty is to them because they had no choice in the matter.

At what point, GrammyGrammy, do you say enough is enough? Do I care for my 90 year old paedophile father when he comes out of prison even though he abandoned us as children (lucky escape actually) as a treasured family member or am I allowed to say, "You reap what you sew!"

God post icanhandyhemback.

What is narcissistic is the definition of honour, demanding to put others lives on hold for a person's benefit

I have been making suggestions of assisted living to my 85 year old aunt, and I'm glad to report she has now befriended someone that lives in the one near her. She hopes to go to see her friend's 'apartment' soon. I am too far away to be of any practical help, and very lucky my aunt's neighbour is so fond of her.

I cannot see how anyone in their 90's should be living alone uncared for 24/7.

What an agist remark and clearly shows that how few 90 year olds GrammyGrammy knows.

My father lived to be 92 and until his last brief illness was living independently, still thought nothing of driving 70 miles when he visited my sister or myself (we also visited him) and strongly objected to people classifying him by age alone. He was still a lynch pin of three local groups and during his final illness we issued bulletins to a contact in each group to pass around his friends. He had cleaners and some help with the gardening but he did most of the gardening himself and was an excellent cook.

He would not let my sister or myself do anything, from ringing more frequently to helping round the house if he thought we were doing it because we felt we should do it out of concern for his age.

His youngest sister is still alive, fit and living independently at 95.

Lots of 90 year old plusses are living alone and uncared for 24/7 because they are still fit, mentally and physically and enjoy living alone and do not need care.

They do not need people like GrammyGrammy forcing care and control on them based merely on chronological age without regard for what they want and when they are managing perfectly successfully on their own and know that if they do need help, they have a loving family to call on.

I'm another who thinks very differently to GrammyGrammy.

Some adult sons and daughters don't see that looking after a parent in their nineties is their sole overall responsibility because some 90 year old want to be as independent as possible and are perfectly capable and happy living in their own home.
My 98 year old mother-in-law is one such. She has moved 200+ miles to be closer to us but has chosen a house with large garden which in the last two years she's completely remodeled. She is making new friends still, has joined in with the U3A things she's interested in and in spite of having a TIA during lockdown (which stopped her from driving) she is often too busy for visits.

Not everyone wants or needs to be someone else's sole responsibility.
I think if it came to that it would be the death of my mother-in-law.

The OP is struggling with an overbearing and selfish mother. She needs a break. She doesn't need berating for being exhausted!

Totally agree NotSpaghetti.
Of course many ninety plus people need a great deal of help and support. Many live in care homes. I fail to see how I am supposed to have total care for my ninety four year old mother when she can’t even stand up and needs a hoist to get her into and out of bed.

Maddy - that is another case of not being 100% responsible.
Ours is (at least for now) a happy case. I'm sorry yours is for unhappy reasons Maddy. So sorry for you both.