Gransnet forums



(85 Posts)
downnotout Sat 14-Oct-23 01:29:55

I might be way out of my depth here and this might not be the right place to put this on but here goes .
I have watched news from ‘abroad’,(I’m in Scotland but have travelled) from a ‘comfortable distance’ and been upset, shocked, very sad about the state of the world, be it wars, acts of god etc.
I am in my 60s now. Yes I did not live through the Second or First World Wars as my parents and grandparents did. I have only seen this reproduced very articulately in many films and heard stories. Yes we have lived through a Covid pandemic - many compared it to the Spanish Flue epidemic of 1918 killing over 215,000. And then of course, after that, the War. But I have never been so, not just touched, but devastated by the last few years of actually living through and acknowledging how dispicable men who crave war can be. And yes, I think it is indeed men. What do they crave? Land? Why? Power over reserves? Why? Power over people? Why?
Why are men so hell-bent on distructing? I am not a ‘reverse-misogynist’ but it is men who seem to have to always instigate and therefore manifest this un-harmony in the world. It is men who send our sons and their own to war to give up their lives.
I have travelled - not all over the world - but everywhere - everywhere- I have gone I have respected every country I have visited - their rules, their culture - and I have connected with so many lovely people from all walks of life just living their lives and happy to talk openly, to chat, to discuss different countries and ways of living, to laugh at the same things, talk about family, friends and even to be able to laugh at ourselves and our own countries eccentricities.
I am so saddened and appalled at what is happening now. Am I being unreasonable in thinking this? Does no one remember banter and laughter?

MayBee70 Sat 14-Oct-23 02:04:18

It is overwhelming, isn’t it. It isn’t the world I thought I was bringing children into and I worry so much for their future. I guess, as animals, we are territorial and men are the ones that protect the territory? We live on a planet that is perfection and we could all live perfect lives if we didn’t have endless wars. We’re the only creatures on the planet that destroy it. Makes no sense to me. sad

downnotout Sat 14-Oct-23 02:48:33

I am not some kind of mad deluded feminist (I don't even know what that is supposed to mean but probably what I may be called by being blunt) but I wonder if the World leaders were women would there be so many wars?

BlueBelle Sat 14-Oct-23 04:10:16

Well Margaret Thatcher managed to take us into one!!

Franbern Sat 14-Oct-23 08:48:59

Seems to me, not so much men or women, but religion is so much at the basis of much of the hatred.

Like MayBee, I really believed that if the world did not blow itself into nuclear oblivion, then things would slowly improve for all humans. I have found the last few years very difficult, not at a personal level but from having to come to terms with the facts that many things are getting worst for many people.

There is some arguement in that there is improvements, just htat they are not linear it is more like three steps forward, two steps back.

The horrendous events of the last week in Gaza does have me in tears, finding it difficult to understand how even the 'rules of war' (which is a strange term), can just be ignored by one country. I do have family living in Israel, some of them on what I would refer to as 'illegal settlements''. All, to me seem to be victims of this strange religion idealogy.

I see reports of what the Taliban do, and again it is 'religion'.

I am, proudly, a humanist. We have one life and need to live it fully, happily and in harmony with nature and other humans.

Fleurpepper Sat 14-Oct-23 08:56:38

Oh I understand what you are saying totally. And the polarisation and even hate which is being poured by so many sides on social media, is overwhelming too- best to keep away.

I have been having panic attacks and nightmares on waking, and difficulty sleeping- because I so fear for the future of our grandchildren and the children of the world- and yes, at the moment, the children of Gaza who have never known peace and who are now living in terror or lying there without medical help or treatment. Best to keep away from social media.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 14-Oct-23 09:06:25

I have been listening an Israeli philosopher on TRIP, and i absolutely agree with him when he says that since populism took over with people like Trump, Netanyahu and our home grown populists like Johnson and Braverman, there has been a rejection of the World Order classing the leaders as elite and to be despised.

The result has been an ever increased disunity, division , violence and conflict.

Without world order we have chaos.

We need to get back to the Liberal World Order.

Redhead56 Sat 14-Oct-23 09:36:04

It's the innocent who just want to live their lives and struggle to get by that upsets me. Children screaming for their parents breaks my heart and reduces me to tears.
We are now more well informed we can't escape the news it's everywhere.
I fear for the future that is if the human race allows one so you are not alone with your feelings.

TerriBull Sat 14-Oct-23 09:36:41

Your post resonates OP, I feel, like most I imagine an overwhelming feeling of sadness, depression even. Absolute horror seeing the pictures of Hamas terrorists manhandling Israeli baby and toddler, another one being rocked in a pram, just wondering what's happened to their parents and what their fate will be. Simultaneously feeling deep sadness at the tear stained and terrorised faces of Palestinian children. Innocent souls on both sides who don't deserve any of this, the madness and callousness of men who reek havoc on their lives is unforgivable.

Callistemon21 Sat 14-Oct-23 09:44:05


It is overwhelming, isn’t it. It isn’t the world I thought I was bringing children into and I worry so much for their future. I guess, as animals, we are territorial and men are the ones that protect the territory? We live on a planet that is perfection and we could all live perfect lives if we didn’t have endless wars. We’re the only creatures on the planet that destroy it. Makes no sense to me. sad

I guess, as animals, we are territorial and men are the ones that protect the territory?

An interesting point, Maybee

Someone was pulled up on the thread about the conflict for saying men! but generally speaking, it is men who instigate war and conflict.

We only have one planet, some are trying to protect it, others to destroy.
Some strive to reach out to space whilst we don't seem capable of bringing water to those who are living with drought.

henetha Sat 14-Oct-23 10:11:32

Our world is truly a terrifying place. And there is no sign of it getting better. It seems to be in the nature of mankind to fight.
I find it amazing that, after all we have learned, or should have learned, we are still fighting. Ukraine and Israel. And other places.
I don't have any answers. Yes, maybe if women ruled the world it might be better. We don't know. Mrs Thatcher was absolutely right to defend the Falklands, surely. Some wars are justified maybe? But then, I would say that, wouldn't I.
The huge majority of us don't want any wars, it is governments that lead us into them.
I don't think we should let this overwhelm us. We need to try to keep a sense of proportion . Just live our own lives and try to be happy when we can. And hope that one day peace will prevail.

pascal30 Sat 14-Oct-23 10:14:43

I recently attended a Sufi W/E which focussed on peace, love. poetry and music.. it was very inclusive of other faiths and philosophies.. I am not a sufi.. . but I am baffled as to how this beautiful faith can have any common roots with what is being perpertrated by Hamas and Isis.. How can they claim to have the same God? and why would they want to wipe out another a beautiful religion the Jewish Faith.. surely we can live harmoniously and respect each other's faith without feeling that it in some way undemines our own beliefs. I personally am a Buddhist and belong to an interfaith group..
There are many interfaith groups having dialogues with other faiths and finding they have much more in common with each other than differences.. we all just want happiness and peace.. I wish these populist and fanatical religious leaders wanted the same for their the moment I can only see the differences becoming greater

Skydancer Sat 14-Oct-23 10:17:35

My DH, normally a cheerful chap, has asked me not to put the news on as he can't stand it. I am fearful for my descendants and just hope somehow, some day, common sense will prevail. But it seems many men just want to fight. Why is beyond me. There is plenty of everything - land and food - to go around. And fighting in the name of religion is crazy. What god would want this?

Callistemon21 Sat 14-Oct-23 10:18:42

I don't think we should let this overwhelm us

There's rarely been a time since WW2 when there hasn't been war or conflict somewhere in the world.
Or indeed, at any time in recorded history.

We must never forget the horrors of that war which lasted for six years so let's hope a peace can be negotiated soon and that other conflicts can be resolved.

Callistemon21 Sat 14-Oct-23 10:19:59

I don't think we should let this overwhelm us
Sorry, I should have said I agree although watching the news, it can feel overwhelming.

Dickens Sat 14-Oct-23 11:07:49

In the animal world, the males are the 'decision makers'. They also control (up to a point) the females. Both are 'territorial'.

Translate that into human behaviour and yes, it is, largely, men who instigate war. But then it gets more complex. It isn't solely about territory - the male ego has a lot to answer for.

Men like Trump, Putin, Kim Jong Un, etc, I believe all have massive egos that continually need feeding. Ego doesn't respond to reason or rationality; it has its own insatiable hunger which renders it totally immune to any suffering it causes in its drive to be 'fed'.

We women do also have egos, but I honestly don't think they are anywhere near as demanding as the male ego. Maybe because we are more in tune with the preservation of human life - because we actually give birth to it?

I once had an interesting conversation with a Muslim male who'd renounced his faith - and lost his family as a result (but that's another story). He told me the reason that men control women is, basically, because they have to make sure that the offspring of their women are theirs and that they are not giving shelter, sustenance, land - and inheritance - to another man's child! And the only way to do that is to control women completely! That's why any attempt to liberate women is a threat to their supremacy so grave that they will kill to preserve it. And they have devised a way to interpret Islam to fit this agenda.

That's one man's view anyway.

So, yes - maybe the world would be a better place if women were more in control - because our egos are in fact more amenable to reason, rationality, logic and compassion.

They say that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Whoever thought that one up obviously never had to face the fury of a man whose sexual advances were rejected. There's a whole breed of men - incels - who are simmering with hate for women (and also the men who are more 'successful' with them) because they've been rejected - denied that 'right' to a woman that they think they have.

My late EX always preferred the company of women - of any age - in a social setting. He said they were, on the whole, just "nicer human beings". smile. Again, though - just one man's view.

karmalady Mon 16-Oct-23 16:39:41

we are a knife edge away from ww3 and we don`t have the resources to defend this country, in which terrorists are deeply embedded and hidden from plain sight. I try not to listen to the news but it is left right and centre everywhere

My youngest dd and her husband and her husband are ex army officers and they would be first to be called up. I think we are spiraling into an abyss. This from a most positive person who rarely has any negative thoughts

Tabitha1960 Mon 16-Oct-23 16:45:20

Are we on the brink of WW3?

Fleurpepper Mon 16-Oct-23 16:47:24

if it spreads- then yes.

karmalady Mon 16-Oct-23 17:20:36

yes Tabitha and we are very under-resourced in all ways. One of my dd works in munitions as well as the other being ex army. Incredibly worrying scary time

JaneJudge Mon 16-Oct-23 17:23:21

I only listen to the news on the radio as it is on at work, watching it on tv has been making me feel anxious for months so I stopped a while ago.

Shelflife Mon 16-Oct-23 17:25:37

I agree downnotout, I am completely overwhelmed by the news and DH has it on most of the day !!?
Men have huge egos and a minority of men have desire to control women. Incels are on the rise - women beware!!

Joseann Mon 16-Oct-23 17:32:32

Tragic news overwhelms me for a day or two, but then I have to move on and not allow it to engulf me. If I cried for a week it would make no difference and I'd just end up a wreck. There is still happiness around.

Luckygirl3 Mon 16-Oct-23 17:35:05

I struggle to watch the news - but something tells me I cannot bury my head in the sand.

Why is the world like this now?:
- it always has been I think, but it is so more obvious with the advances in media, weaponry and travel.
- RELIGION, religion, religion. It deals in fundamentals and breeds fundamentalists.
- western interference and delusions of superiority that have drawn borders where none should be, divided nations and tribes, and destroyed indigenous cultures.
- Male domination and chest beating. Thatcher took us into a war because she wanted to out-man the men. I am not anti-men, but as Grayson Perry said: “^most violent people, rapists, criminals, killers, tax avoiders, corrupt politicians, planet despoilers, sex abusers and dinner-party bores, do tend to be, well… men^”

Is there anything we can do? I do not know - but I do know that it becomes harder to encourage GC to go for the delayed gratification option and get a tertiary education - I tempted to tell them to live for today.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 16-Oct-23 17:37:17

There is far more to rejoice about than worry about, remember good news doesn’t sell newspapers or get people to watch their tv screens.

I remember an old saying from my Great Granny

misery begets misery