OVERWHELMED BY WORLD EVENTS

Why do some people criticise Margaret Thatcher and the Falkland war ( on behalf of people who considered themselves part of UK) but do not do the same to Tony Blair who took the country into a war based in false propagander. He was a real warmonger!!

I’ve thought a lot recently about why some people never learn from history and the devastation of war on every level.
Men are “mainly” responsible, their egos and in some cases they are just unhinged and deluded, my opinion of Trump for example.
I had this sent to me this week “ people are not happy in Gaza, in Libya, Iran, Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria etc So where are they happy ? They’re happy in Australia, Canada, England, France, Italy, Germany, Sweden etc Basically is there is no happiness in any Muslim country …., and who do they blame ? Not Islam, not their leaders, not themselves….. they blame the countries where people are happy in, and they want to change those countries, to be the same as their countries, that they’re not happy in.”
Please don’t start bombarding me with this quote, I did not write it. Is there an element of truth ? What is the answer to it all ? Religion certainly causes more wars, unrest and unhappiness than anything else. I’m a humanist, I’m a spiritual person, and I dont care what colour or religion people are, I just care about love, kindness and tolerance.

TanaMa

Why do some people criticise Margaret Thatcher and the Falkland war ( on behalf of people who considered themselves part of UK) but do not do the same to Tony Blair who took the country into a war based in false propagander. He was a real warmonger!!

No-one knows exactly how many people died in the 2003 Iraq war - estimates are in the hundreds of thousands. And the invasion set off decades of brutality and chaos. For all the rhetoric being bandied about at the time, including that on Saddam Hussein, it does look like Bush and Blair were indeed warmongering.

Much as I disliked Thatcher - the Falklands was a different situation all together.

You can argue that the island should have been Argentina's territory, but when the military junta invaded it - what else was she supposed to do to protect the islanders who saw themselves as British?

Too many vapid generalisations above about men, etc. I agree voters have been gulled into voting in some appalling populist politicians - Thatcher, Johnson, Trump, etc., 'strongmen' such as Netanyahu, Putin, Bolsanaro, etc. and incompetents like Truss. Our education system doesn't seem to arm future voters with the ability to make political judgements. And it's true that the media and press love bad news because it increases readership and advertising revenue for their profits. Also there is far to much opinion in the media and press which passes for news in many people's minds and much of it is biased according to the owners' views and political allegiance. BBC News is fairly reliable but offers too much opinion from those on the ground and it's local news teams may be influenced by their allegiances as may be the case for other TV channels.

TanaMa

Why do some people criticise Margaret Thatcher and the Falkland war ( on behalf of people who considered themselves part of UK) but do not do the same to Tony Blair who took the country into a war based in false propagander. He was a real warmonger!!

It's worth remembering that Blair was re-elected for the third time by the British people with a substantial majority AFTER the Gulf War. Most of the criticism directed at him was from the Left which resented his popularity and dominance of the Labour Party.

Grantanow, another post carefully written to criticise Conservative leaders. You are so one sided like others. The post about the Falklands was short on fact until someone corrected it. Men become leaders because few women feel the need to lead their political parties and no doubt do wonderful work in other roles. The situation in Israel and Gaza is horrific. Hamas is a cruel terrorist organisation which cares not a fig for thr Palestinians in Gaza. Now the awful,destruction of the hospital in Gaza. Hamas immediately blamed the Israelis and stirred up other Middle Eastern countries. If you think logically then it would have been extremely stupid for Israel to have bombed the hospital. First they have the Israeli hostages taken by Hamas to free which such a shocking bombing would not help. Then they had the US President visiting Israel and other Middle Eastern countries. It would have been completely against Isreal’s aims. So it suited Hamas to give out this story that Israel bombed the hospital. If you cannot see how stupid it would have been for Israel to perpetrate such barbarity then there is no hope for any useful argument. There is just not any way for Hamas and Hisbollah to reach any agreement to allow Israel,and the Palestinians to live peacefully. It is a complete tragedy.

My father served all over the world in WW11 and I recall him saying that WW111 would start in the middle east. I hope was wrong. I have always been on tenterhooks when there has been "trouble" in the middle east.
I am wondering who is going to take advantage of this distraction. Will China invade Taiwan,or Russia and Belarus escalating the war in Ukraine

Another proud Humanist here Franbern. So many deaths and maiming done in the name of religion and male ego.

I don't feel overwhelmed, just angry at what is happening and grateful that I have the luxury of choosing whether or not to be aware of it all.

I agree DOWNANDOUT. Watching this unfold on the news is heartbreaking. I can’t bear the thought of children, or indeed anyone being bombed and attacked. To prevent water supplies, food and much needed medical supplies from being ferried into Gaza is beyond belief. Hamas are evil beings, but the people in Palestine don’t deserve this, in the same way that ordinary Israeli’s didn’t deserve to be tortured and murdered or taken hostage.
Like you, I fear for our children and grandchildren. DH tells me not to read or watch it, but how can we not?

It does feel sometimes as if the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are on the move.

This video shows what happened in London at the weekend. The Police seem powerless and my neighbours in Golders Green now live in fear. Is this the future in our capital,city? I hope this works as I am technically incompetent!

twitter.com/Emily8275/status/1712435095733514657/video/1

BlueBelle

Well Margaret Thatcher managed to take us into one!!

And the Falkland Islanders thank God daily that she did!

Anniel

This video shows what happened in London at the weekend. The Police seem powerless and my neighbours in Golders Green now live in fear. Is this the future in our capital,city? I hope this works as I am technically incompetent!

twitter.com/Emily8275/status/1712435095733514657/video/1

That is extremely chilling.

Why did the police not stop or arrest them, surely they committed multiple hate crimes?

All the whispers into Thatcher’s ears were from men, no doubt…

GrannyGravy,
Lots of people are asking that question. I think the police were outnumbered and whoever was directing operations was worried thst arresting the ringleaders would cause too much unrest. The Jewish community in Golders Green and other NW London suburbs are really worried. It is just a bus ride up the Finchley Road from where I have lived since 1984 and there has never been anything like this before. There was a bus driven along the Main Street shouting threatening messages to Jews who have businesses there. It is unbelievable.

TanaMa - Thatcher is criticised because people died. Some of our military still suffer physical or psychological injuries because of that war.
I’ve no time for Thatcher but I do understand the sovereignty issue and don’t believe she’d any choice but fight back.

Blair is constantly criticised by left-right-no political allegiance for joining Bush in Iraq. I was one of many who marched against the war and left the Labour Party because of the invasion. It isn’t about tribal politics, it’s about morality, ethics and defence

It feels like the whole world is imploding right now.

I’ve always felt as long as there is politics and religion (a powder keg of a situation!) there will be strife, genocide and war in this world. Somewhere.

This recent Middle East incident has lit antisemitism to a new level, unseen since pre-WWII.

It makes me ill. It makes me scared that (individual) people will take matters into their own hands - locally, nationally, internationally and make things worse.

We need very wise, moral and strong leaders now. Who will they be? I don’t think we know yet.
USA Gundy

Anniel

GrannyGravy,
Lots of people are asking that question. I think the police were outnumbered and whoever was directing operations was worried thst arresting the ringleaders would cause too much unrest. The Jewish community in Golders Green and other NW London suburbs are really worried. It is just a bus ride up the Finchley Road from where I have lived since 1984 and there has never been anything like this before. There was a bus driven along the Main Street shouting threatening messages to Jews who have businesses there. It is unbelievable.

I tried to post your link on the thread (Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah) under News & Politics, but couldn’t manage to get it to turn blue could you please repost it there, as I think it’s relevant to that thread.

TanaMa

Why do some people criticise Margaret Thatcher and the Falkland war ( on behalf of people who considered themselves part of UK) but do not do the same to Tony Blair who took the country into a war based in false propagander. He was a real warmonger!!

I don't criticise Margaret Thatcher because she was defending a British sovereign territory which had been invaded by a foreign power. We know people who fought in the Falklands War and they believe it was the right thing to do.

Tony Blair, however, did take us into a war which was based on false information; it was nothing to do with a British overseas territory but more to do with oil.

Every time countries meddle in the Middle East on the pretext of bringing democracy to the region, it causes more destabilisation.

Back in the 90s I worked closely with a pharmaceutical marketing company that was a relative 'newbie' in the 'information' technology world. They were about to merge with our own company to then 'go public'. I was heavily involved in this IPO and got to know the two company owners quite well.

The remarkable thing is that one owner was a Jew and the other a Muslim. They worked together, socialised with each other and each other's family, to an extent, also.

I know it's simplistic to view this unusual set of circumstances as a metaphor for 'peaceful co-existence'... but getting to know them did highlight the utter futility of such wars.

Then there's the West–Eastern Divan Orchestra, founded by Daniel Barenboim and the late Palestinian-American academic Edward Said. The orchestra consist of musicians from backgrounds in Egypt, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, etc.

As Barenboim said...

"The Divan is not a love story, and it is not a peace story. It has very flatteringly been described as a project for peace. It isn't. It's not going to bring peace, whether you play well or not so well. The Divan was conceived as a project against ignorance. A project against the fact that it is absolutely essential for people to get to know the other, to understand what the other thinks and feels, without necessarily agreeing with it. I'm not trying to convert the Arab members of the Divan to the Israeli point of view, and not trying to convince the Israelis to the Arab point of view. But I want to – and unfortunately I am alone in this now that Edward died a few years ago – ...create a platform where the two sides can disagree and not resort to knives."

And, as he said later, "either we share what there is to share, or we continue to kill each other".

Annie’s - I’ve only just managed to play your link. Thank you. Does anyone else feel our tv news is sanitising what we see

Anniel

This video shows what happened in London at the weekend. The Police seem powerless and my neighbours in Golders Green now live in fear. Is this the future in our capital,city? I hope this works as I am technically incompetent!

twitter.com/Emily8275/status/1712435095733514657/video/1

It works and terrifying to see…..😳

I'm not sure that it's entirely about gender, except in the sense that girls are often brought up to be kind, caring and considerate of others feelings and the "boys will be boys" idea seems not to encompass these qualities very much. Girls are often expected to be polite, humble and uncomplaining - that can be to their disadvantage sometimes though.

Thatcher wasn't a particularly caring or sensitive person, and didn't seem very concerned about the deaths caused on both sides in the Falklands War. Golda Meir, again did not seem to instill the ideals of care and compassion, and neither did Indira Ghandi. I therefore think it's more about people who are driven by a number of goals which often include: power, influence, money, success, a need for admiration and unquestioning respect, etc. etc. These qualities are more often tolerated (or even encouraged) in boys but some girls are also encouraged to acquire them.

I can quite understand anyone feeling totally overwhelmed by the terrible things that are happening around the world. It's not just Israel and Gaza (though the inhumanity on both sides is almost too awful to contemplate) - and it's not just man made tragedies - so many earthquakes, floods, fires, etc, etc. I don't know how we should deal with these dreadful tragedies. Some say turn the TV off, don't read the papers, etc. etc. but I feel it is important that we are aware of what is going on round the world. Perhaps rationing how much we watch and read is the only answer.

On the Israel Gaza question, this has been an issue ignored for many years. Isn't the United Nations meant to try and bring parties together and bring Israel to account regarding encroaching on land that is not theirs?

I also agree with Franbern regarding the corrosive nature of religion. Many of these atrocities would not occur if it were not for people following often outdated "rules", rather than using their own sense of what is right and what is wrong to determine how they behave towards others.

I also agree with Franbern regarding the corrosive nature of religion. Many of these atrocities would not occur if it were not for people following often outdated "rules", rather than using their own sense of what is right and what is wrong to determine how they behave towards others.

I'm an atheist - but I think the 'corrosion' is due not so much to the religion - but those who have hijacked it and interpreted it for their own agenda.

Dickens

^I also agree with Franbern regarding the corrosive nature of religion. Many of these atrocities would not occur if it were not for people following often outdated "rules", rather than using their own sense of what is right and what is wrong to determine how they behave towards others.^

I'm an atheist - but I think the 'corrosion' is due not so much to the religion - but those who have hijacked it and interpreted it for their own agenda.

Very true Dickens

No God would want to see such hatred, war and killings.
It is the way it has been interpreted by mankind.