Hungry Britain

Very good point Elegran.

Reading through this thread brings to mind another quote from St Luke.

'And, standing by himself the Pharisee said 'Oh God, I thank thee that I am not as other men, greedy, dishonest, immoral - or like this tax collector'.

It would be instructive for some to read the rest of this parable.

And

'Judge not that ye be not judged'.

where do you draw the line ?

It would be far too judgemental to draw any sort of line, granjura!

And who draws the line? Who is wise enough to separate the sheep from the goats, without leaving some sheep unfed and some goats munching everything they can reach? To say to this one, "come" and he cometh, to this one "go" and he goeth? Who can set themselves up to know just what is best for each man woman and child under their jurisdiction?

Only those arrogant enough to think that their judgment is absoluite, that everyone can be stretched to fit the Procrustean bed, or their feet lopped off if they are too tall.

Heaven save us from those with universal answers to complex problems.

Better known as 'sheep dip' Elegran. One size fits all (not).

I don't think you can lump state pension in with other benefits. It is contribution based. ie We paid in for it.

(That is going back to grannyactivist' s post)

GA not talking about benefit fraud. These people are not fraudulently claiming benefits, they are operating within the system that already exists and within the culture they have been brought up in.

https://fullfact.org/economy/welfare_budget_public_spending-29886

Yes, I agree, Aka.

No one is suggesting we bring back workhouses or saying that everyone on benefits is a scrounger. There is a growing culture of 'entitlement' which pervades all walks of life these days, however, and the answer isn't throwing even more money at the problem (Gordon Brown's preferred option). I will suggest, again, that perhaps people should be expected to live within their means, whatever their income?

In response to earlier posts, no I don't have nets. I see my neighbours walking the dog but I fail to see why the woman goes with him, th eman is supposed to have a disability which of course may not be obvious but he does not need a woman around as he can obviously get about, she can get a job, after all if he was a single bloke he would have to manage alone.
As to the remarks about depression, I find it hard to believe they cannot get up in the morning, I said lol because I said who does like to get up in the morning, not me for sure but I have to. No I don't think its funny to have depression but I think its strange that 2 people I know who have it supposedly, have both been seen on the early bus to go out. Depression must only affect people when they are trying not to get a job, or when applying for DLA, maybe it goes away on a day the local team plays.
There are scroungers all around

It's all a mess isn't it?For years the general public has been shouting about abuse of the benefit system, now they are doing something about it, we don't like that either.Children should always come first, and certainly be fed at school as much as possible.Breakfast club is a very good idea. I remember children [from years ago] that were lucky to get so much as a cornflake at home, while others had cooked breakfasts prepared by Mothers.Making it an all inclusive club, is great, ditto free school dinners and anything else going, free school milk or juice and a mid morning biscuit perhaps.There always were and always will be feckless hopeless families, but the children should not suffer from hunger.However, measures have to be taken to make men in particular go to work.I thought that you could only turn down 3 jobs before benefits were stopped?It's also true that there are many areas where there is no work. It's also true that debts are not shameful like they used to be so nobody cares about owing vast amounts.It's also true that many people think the world owes them a living.It's true that some families are trying hard to make ends meet, and others won't ever even try.It's true that young people often have unfeasible expectations, and others have no expectations, and feel angry and hopeless.It's true to say that some people milk the system shamelessly
and others who really need help quite desperately fall foul of officialdom or because they tell the truth, do not receive any help.Nearly all the points that everyone has posted have some truth in them, and that's why it's all a mess.On top of that, because of the new regulations , anyone [almost] can walk into Britain and expect to be helped, or look for work.How will this situation ever be solved? However, yes, to return to the original post
food banks must continue, and I hope they will.

Food banks should not be necessary in a country as rich as this, roses. I hope it will not be long before we can do away with them forever.
I note the government is now saying it could bribe us with tax cuts before the next election. Give the money to those who need it; those who have had their benefits cut illegally; those who have been forced out of their homes and away from their support groups; and to the families of those who have died after having their benefits cut.
The fullfact link was for you, jingle, about the way benefits are classified.

Wow! Depression works in mysterious ways cactus and it is impossible to generalise about the behaviour of sufferers.My OH exists on very little sleep and is a complete workacholic.

Generalisations are a bad way to see people. On this thread (and others) we have had plenty of them, mostly generalising about "the poor" or "benefit scroungers" or "people on estates".

Look a bit closer. They are all PEOPLE. Some are good, some bad, some work hard, some don't, some look after their children well, some don't. Until you have had a one-to-one conversation with them, you don't know for certain which is which.

One of my neighbours walks every day along the street and back. He looks fine, but I know that he nearly died from a stroke a couple of years ago and is still recovering. Lately his wife does not walk with him, but she did for a long time.

That man that Cactus sees walking his dog may be 100% fit and cheating to get benefits, or he may have some disability which is not obvious He may need his wife to be beside him. If Cactus were to meet them and talk for a while, who knows what problems he may be facing? Who knows what his wife may be facing?

But I think we all know that, Elegran. We don't need to be told that people are different, and that disabilities can be invisible.

What I get fed up with, on this and other threads, is the assumption that blanket 'compassion' should be the order of the day, and anyone who dares to question that must be a hypocrite or an extreme right-winger who wants to throw the 'undeserving poor' into workhouses!

Well said, Elegran. My husband used to call me his walking stick for 15 years after he fell off the ladder. When we lived in York, we used to walk into the city centre and go into pubs because he was unsteady all the time and slurred his speech because of the ataxia. So we thought we may as well go for a pint, as he always looked as i9f he was drunk. He was always in pain, and could only walk so far before he had to sit down. If it happened now, he would not be given DLA or the equivalent, as he could walk as far as the car.
One good thing came out of it. Nobody who knew him would ever judge anyone else on appearances again.

On the button ANA !!

I haven't noticed anyone advocating blanket compassion, here or elsewhere. But even if I had, I would prefer that to the self satisfied, self congratulatory judgemental assertions that have been made by some posters.

That cuts both ways, MiceElf!

Rose, I think your mention of jobs for men is very sexist, women can and do work harder than men and provide for their families, so make that jobs for all.

Yes Elegran, they are indeed all people- including my wonderful friends who live in the estates mentioned- and the ones who have told me, again and again, how na!ive and clueless I am about the number of people who are taking advantage of the system. I have tried to say all the good things said here on this thread- but they tell me I don't know what I am talking about- as I don't live there- and do not see what they see day in, day out.

And because I respect and trust them, I listen to them and their fears and frustrations- that they wish benefits were at times better used for those who truly, really need them. And who am I to tell them I know better?This is not generalising, this is not lacking in empathy- au contraire. If you truly care for those who really need support- you'd want that money and services used for them, properly and not abused by many- perhaps too many.

that's the trouble you are all trying to say good things, how many of you gransnetters are seeing the real situation.