Mumsnetter asking AIBU about Childcare from GPs

I feel the same way Nightowl with my GC, I get GC withdrawal symptoms if I don't see my six GC.

My last stint of four day a week babysitting regularly finished in September. I still babysit but wasn't tied to a regular routine and DD2 has other help if needed. At the moment I am visiting DS and family in Qld over Christmas and he has asked if I could stay on possibly six months or more while he studies every night and weekends to increase his qualifications. My DIL has a newish business and works until around 7pm. I am happy to help, living next door to DD2 means I can go off and do what I like and they look after the house and garden while I am away. I said okay, I let DD2 know don't expect me anytime soon. DS said he is going to tell his sisters he has enticed me with cycling every day (which I love), good weather and board games .

The only thing is I will miss a lot of my last GD at the age of three, I love that age, they are past the baby stage and I will be sad to not be there. Plus my own house to have some time to myself. The great thing is I will be able to spend more time with my two GSs who I have spent less time with.

Recently my SIL was late home and I suspected he was at the pub, I was tired and wanted to go home. I sent him a message and told him to tell his friends that his MIL was about to leave and he had to go. He took it well, he has done a lot for me, restoring the house I live in, new walls, ceilings, kitchen and bathroom. It does work both ways.

Yes indeed - the Mums clearly have a proper understanding of the situation in the main and it is good to hear that so many treat their parents with such respect.

What I find refreshing and reassuring on Mumsnet on this thread at any rate, is how the vast majority of the younger mums do not see GPs as a source of free childcare and are telling OP to take reonsibility for her own child! Given how many of us have expressed reservations regarding sleepovers/regular or taxing granny duties or the sheer exhaustion of trying to be supergran it is good to know our DDs understand more than we might think.

OK, nightowl. I must have misinterpreted anya's post of 14:22 yesterday. It seems some other people did too. As we know, print can be difficult when one doesn't get the tone of voice or facial expressions.

Seems my "fine mind" didn't serve me well in that instance

Of course there's no convincing to be done thatbags and of course there's an acceptance of different viewpoints. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise

Re nightowl's last post, and anya's yesterday about "convincing" people. As I see it, there is no convincing to do, just an acceptance of a number of viewpoints as varied in detail as people's personal circumstances. As I see it, there are no "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts" about grandparents caring for grandchildren. That means parents cannot assume that their children's grandparents can do childcare. It's great if they can. It's greater if doing it doesn't tire them out or make them feel taken for granted.

So I still think the mumsnet OP had unreasonable expectations and that's why she ended up being disappointed by her parents. Her expectations were unreasonable for them. In another family things would be different. There is no "other things being equal" in subjects like this. Other things aren't equal.

Eloethan Doctors'opening times and the 24/7 culture is a whole new can of worms, isn't it.
As an employer, albeit a very small one, I was required by law to allow employees reasonable time off to go the the doctor etc.
At the same time I was under increasing pressure to extend my own opening hours so that other people's employees could attend outside their own working hours .
I'm not sure where this pressure for extended opening hours came from. I'm not convinced it came from patients.
I was once given an appointment to see my doctor at 7.45 am. I reluctantly accepted because I was already retired and could have attended at any time.
The health centre was deserted except for one receptionist and the doctor, and I couldn't help thinking it wasn't a very good use of resources to have all those facilities in use just to see one patient who didn't need an early appointment, just to fulfil a Government decree about opening hours.

I don't think Anya's post was smug or insensitive Eloethan, or perhaps I'm missing something. She didn't seem to suggest everyone must be at one extreme or the other, just that some people were and neither could convince the other. And of course there are those who are not able to offer childcare for some reason but I think it is safe to assume they might also see it 'as a joy and a privilege'.

Not everything on here needs to be read as a personal attack

Anya said: "I've come to the conclusion that there are those of us who find it a joy and a privilege to look after our grandchildren and those who find it a tiring imposition".

Whilst I am very happy to look after my grandson two days a week from 8.30 to 7.00, I recognise that not everyone has the health or stamina to do this and I think Anya's comment was smug and insensitive. As other gransnetters have suggested, a person can adore their grandchildren and wish to be fully involved in their care but may sadly be unable to do it. Alternatively, they may have been hardworking, wonderful parents themselves who now have the time to do all the things that they couldn't do when they were parents of young children.

In the case of the mumsnet OP, it was unwise of the parents to moan behind their daughter's back but you don't know the daughter - whether she is particularly "touchy" or unreasonable. I expect all of us at some time have behaved unwisely and said things we ought not to have said to someone we ought not to have said them to. Or perhaps there are saints among us.

On a slightly different tack, it seems to me that ordinary people are supposed to bend over backwards to facilitate employers. In the "old days", I recall that if I needed to go to the doctors I would simply inform my employer and see my doctor at the beginning or end of the day. It appears that it is no longer acceptable for employees to be granted time off to visit the doctors. Instead, GPs have to be open all hours - including weekends - so that employees do not inconvenience their employers by having time off to see their doctors. Similarly, grandparents must be "on call" at all times to look after the children of employees. I think we are being conned left right and centre. What about medium/large employers (I'm not talking about small employers) actually providing crèche facilities, as they do in some other countries?

I think one of the things the mumsnet OP seemed to be most sad about when was that her parents had not reassured her that they did adore their grandchild. That was an assumption she had made (which seems reasonable) but was now questioning, I think.

absent's 'mission-creep' reference is spot on. When we happily offer or agree to babysit, or to pick up a child from nursery and give them their tea before being collected by mum or dad, we don't knowingly sign up to doing this with the next five grandchildren. Nor do we contract to expand the one- off emergency minding to taking it on two or three times a week. Nor do the parents always think that their siblings with children will also need to ask for some help with childminding every now and then.

Taking on such childcare responsibilities in your fifties whilst you're perhaps still working becomes a different task in your sixties, when you may be retired but also not necessarily as fit. I have childminding days or hours which my children negotiate with me, or I offer to do because I want to and I'm free to do it. I'm not the parent, though - they have to organise routine childcare independently of me, and I'm the back-up, as are some of the other grandparents. The only one of us who childminds routinely gave up part of her job and went part-time - she minds three year old twin grandaughters three days a week for the same salary she would have otherwise got. She's in her fifties - she'll return to full-time work when they start school. It's mutually suitable - they're just a few doors away from home and she has lots of toys and equipment to ensure they are kept occupied. Plus, she's a safe pair of hands who has enjoyed this role.

The Mumsnet OP seems to have lost sight of what should have been contracted about childcare and should not make assumotions that the grandarents will remain fit and willing to childmind another little one, however much they adore their grandchildren.

I think I have to agree with Anya here, inasmuch as I think there are opposing viewpoints about whether grandparents should be asked to look after children or not. All other things being equal - health, finance, distance, personal circumstances, there are grandparents and parents who are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this and many who fall somewhere in the middle and muddle along, perhaps with some resentment on both sides about how much or how little is done.

I look after my DGS 5 days a week from 7am to 6pm with one overnight stay. I also work part time while he is at preschool and at weekends, and I have changed my job and my hours to be able to do this amount of childcare. I'm not smug or self-congratulatory; I have chosen to do it because I simply adore him and can think of nothing in this world I would rather do than spend time with him at this magical age. It will only be for a few years but I hope to be able to offer childcare for any other grandchildren that come along while I am fit enough.

I accept it wouldn't be everyone's choice and I think the key is communication and honesty if things get too much. It certainly is not ok to moan to other members of the family behind the parents' back.

Yes, there is a great difference between tiresome and tiring, and between an resented imposition for selfish grandparents and a worrying responsibility for those with reduced mobility and stamina.

As for it being "an honour and a privilege for Gp's to look after their grandchildren", if they think their children are such an honour and privilege, the parents should in that case want to give up everything else in their lives to look after them.

I think it is a little harsh to say that there are those who find it a "tiresome imposition" - there are those, like us, who would give our right arm to be well enough to do it, and the phrase implies that the GC are tiresome rather than simply tiring for those not in the best of health. It is a privilege to look after them, but children should not assume that this is possible for all GPs

Exactly Iam64 Having children is a privilege and with privilege comes responsibility. I'm sure most Grandparents are happy to help when they can but it should never be assumed that they will provide child care on a regular basis.

My parents were our 'emergency' back up. If they already had plans when we phoned if, for example, one of the children was too ill for school/childminder, one of us took a day off work to cover the emergency. It would never have occurred to me (or my sisters) that my parents should give up their well earned retirement/hobbies/friends to look after my /our children so we could work.

We only have one grandson at the moment. We love him very much and see him regularly. We are happy to babysit and help out when we can. We take him away with us for short breaks in our caravan and for a week in the summer holidays. We would not be willing to provide regular childcare week after week. Dr1 would not expect us to nor would DD 2 or 3 if and when they decide to have a family.

I couldn't open the link to that thread but I did read a similar [I assume]one recently where young mothers were saying it should be an honour and a privilege for Gp's to look after their grandchildren. The reason I looked at the thread was because I've just done a three month stint of childminding to help out which, in retrospect, has possibly made me feel a bit depressed as I hardly went out for those three months and then found myself the only member of our family not invited to any Christmas social events which made me feel like some sort of employee . There has to be the right balance when it comes to childminding. I'm also beginning to question in what way my grandchildren regard me. It'll be interesting to see how things are now that the circumstances have changed.

Ten years ago, my husband and I looked after our grandson as well as running a guest house. We found it very enjoyable. He was actually in childcare, but we used to be phoned up to go and collect him as he was unsettling the other babies. We found out later that it was the other babies that were making him cry, a result of him having ASD.
Now I look after him at least three days a week from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. and take his sister to school. I teach him at home, and am actually quite worn out some days. The alternative, though, is that I would miss out on a lot of them growing up; he is now 12, she is 7.
The thing is that my son and his partner have helped us a lot, and we have helped them. That is what families do. However, I am sure if it got too much for me, they would understand, and not be as unthinking as the mum who wrote the OP.

I agree Eloethan
anya it is not so black and white as you suggest, with self-sacrificing GPs regarding it as a joy and privilege to look after their GCs, and selfish ones regarding it as an imposition.
It seems to me that in the case of the mumsnet OP's parents, looking after their DGC may well have started off as a joy and privilege, but as absent suggests, with the passage of time, become a tiring imposition as the mumsnet OP took them for granted, arrived home late, asked them to do Saturdays too so she could do DIY on her house, and appeared to begrudge taking time off work herself so they could go on holiday. And then assumed they would be able to look after a new baby too.
Were they just supposed to suck it up?

Anya I actually find your tone to be rather self-congratulatory and lacking in understanding of those people who don't have the boundless energy that others may have.

I would suggest that if a person does feel it to be an "imposition", that is possibly because it has been imposed upon them without much prior consultation or consideration.

You speak as if these grandparents had made no contribution but in fact they have been looking after their daughter's child since he was 10 months old and now they are - it seems without proper consultation - expected to look after another baby. It is very demanding looking after two young children whose ages are close together.

Even the mums on mumsnet overwhelmingly feel that the poster was being very unreasonable. Being a caring grandparent surely doesn't mean being a doormat.

I think sometimes "mission creep" happens. it appears to have done so in this case. The odd hour or two extra here and there and the occasional morning or afternoon at weekends can eventually do the straw and camel's back thing. I, for one, tend to crave my Friday evening gin and tonic when the four or five children have gone home and rather dread answering a ringing telephone on Saturday mornings. And yes, I do love my grandchildren, gets lots of pleasure from being with them and value their affection for me and interest in the things I do.

Don't worry, I won't. I may carry on thinking about the issue though. Sleep tight

You obviously haven't read my earlier posts, but I think you've just proved my point that inasmuch as we all have our own opinions and all the discussion in the world will rarely, if ever alter them.

Yes, uncompromising is about right.

Anyway for me the discussion is over so no point in replying, it would be stupid to waste your fine mind on me.

The people who make such judgments about what positions there are are the uncompromising ones. Other people have responded with quite a variety of reasons why they sympathise with the GPs or with the mum. I find it extraordinary that the mum apparently didn't sense that her parents were finding the job difficult. I suppose they could have tried desperately hard to hide it from her because they really wanted to be helpful.

Until it all just got too much and on top of them and the bubble was burst.

I don't envy the mum's position but it's not an unusual one for working parents to have to make new childcare arrangements.