Hopeless dilemma

I too have received pms on this matter and am very grateful to those who have taken the trouble to provide support and understanding.

I have been receiving pms this afternoon [not from Luckygirl] about this subject.
I have never received negative pms before.
I have reported them to gransnet to see if they are allowed.

Thank you Atqui for your understanding.

There is also mil to consider. If she has the children, is she going to allow her husband access?

I'm not into offering advice on personal matters when I don't know people well, but just want to say that I don't think many , if any people on G N would think you were over reacting.I feel very sorry for you all; we feel our children's / GC 's pain, and your Dd and her husband seem to be in an intolerable position being involved with this ghastly man.

Thank you nonnie. I am sure there will be a resolution to this problem in time, but it is very raw for my DD (and indeed the rest of us) at present. There will be difficult conversations to be had, as you can imagine, not just with FIL himself, but with the young lady who helps with childcare occasionally to explain that she must not let him take the children off by himself. What a ludicrous situation to be in - what a dreadful man he is to cause all this upset. And as others have said, he will consider that he has done no wrong.

How wrong it is to think you know what they should do in this situation. anyone who has the slightest understanding of what is going on would realise it is probably impossible to walk away from this situation. Yes, i had some 'great' ideas about what to do like call the social services anonymously but when I thought all these ideas through I realised how impractical they are.

All we can do is offer our support and understanding.

Thank you Iam - my DD spoke about it to the 6 year old and made it very clear that she would never allow this to happen again to either of them and that the man's behaviour was very wrong. I am just so sad that she is in this position, as the repercussions for the future are unimaginable, and it is not the sort of conversation you wish to be forced to have with your children.

Dear SIL cannot come back at the moment, but he is supporting DD all he can every day on the phone. Without saying anything that would identify him, if he were to come back it would be like the Val Doonican show without Val Doonican and there would be thousands of ticket refunds needed, amounting to tens of thousands of pounds.

DD is feeling a bit better from her bug, although has eaten virtually nothing for 4 days; little lad is vomiting, and has been all night and all day yesterday. It is not a good time for them all.

Thank you all for your support in this awkward situation. It is much appreciated.

I've been following this thread lucky girl, the comment from your 6 year old grandchild prompted me to comment. My parents didn't smack, they were born in the 1920's and often commented that their own parents were unusual in that generation, in not having a strap hanging behind the door, in readiness for chastising children.

I don't believe this man either understands or cares about the impact of his behaviour on others, particularly on children. I'm sure you recognise the personality type and accept he won't change. I empathise with your daughter and sil as they try and build their business whilst, it seems, locked into some kind of working relationship with him.

As a child of 8, I was present when my uncle made his 3 boys take their pj's off, lined them up and slapped their bottoms as all 3 boys cried, screamed and trembled with fear. I was "rescued" by my dad. Despite this happening almost 60 years ago, it immediately came to mind when I read your OP. It's a relief to read that your 6 year old grandchild has talked to his mum about the incident. Whatever else happens, it seems to me that the children need a clear message that this incident was wrong and won't happen again.

What a rotten situation.

Indeed nellie - and somehow we have to keep the peace in the family and it is going to be very difficult indeed. Protecting the children is the first priority. It is not just the physical action but the fact that these two children, who up to now have had faith in the adults around them, have been shocked to the core by this - especially the older one who was not on the receiving end but witnessed what happened. Goodbye childhood innocence at a stroke. I am seething.

JaneAinsworth Re your comments on Fri 03-Jul-15 21:38:29

Unfortunately it would not surprise me at all if the FIL really does not seem to have a clue about what he has done wrong.
Given what we have heard about him and the boorish way he behaves, An inability to understand the feelings of other people would seem to go with his personality type.

The B*****D has had an empathy bypass.

Luckygirl I would be furious too, and frustrated at feeling powerless to act as I would really want to.

I dont mind if you ignore them Luckygirl. That is up to you.

To be honest, I always ignore Soon's posts as they are are so judgmental and self-righteous.

Thank you to those who have understood the subtleties of this dilemma. I have no idea how it will eventually be resolved, but appreciate your kind words.

Perhaps you need to stop and reflect S2B as your post sounds very judgemental, by your own admission. You do not know enough to make a valid judgement.

It isn't always simple or easy for an adult son to stand up to a parent who has bullied them all their life.
My exh made untrue allegations about his own son to my dil's family, which gave my ds the anger and strength to finally disown his father. He was still very upset about losing his dad!
I'm sure lucky girl's dd and sil will find a way to protect their children, the business may have to change direction.
I have every sympathy for your anguish lucky

My DH would have left working, and come home. Immediately.

I am judging her sil's behaviour, but I suppose it is wrapped up in his personality. People are allowed to judge peoples' behaviour though.

Yet Jane there's a grain of truth in that. If I remember the OP then SiL is away from home and not well? Well I wonder how free with his hands this bullying FiL would be if his son was there and well and in a position to deal with his father and support his family.

This is no reflection on Lucky's SiL but often bullies take advantage of situations like this.

It's easy for you to say that though Soon, isn't it?
Your family isn't Luckygirl's family, and you shouldn't judge her SiL as you appear to be doing.

Yes, there is a similar work dynamic in my family.
I have been trying to imagine my fil doing it to one of our kids. I cant. No way.

If he had, DH would have hit the roof. He would have read fil the riot act. Even if it meant termination of the business arrangement.
Yet your sil appears to be nowhere. I hope your sil acts soon.

No jane - he does not realise. He is a huge man (which makes the hitting worse) - but he is very insecure (as most bullies are) - he is noisy and brash (embarrassingly so) in company, bigoted and racist, and about as unlike my DD (and my SIL) as it is possible to imagine. My DD has put so many years of effort into trying to maintain good relations and now it has all blown up. He is grossly unfit (including diabetes) and refuses to take any control over this, continuing to overeat and drink spirits to excess.

There is a lobby within that family in favour of smacking and they do not begin to understand why my DD and her OH will have no truck with it.

My view is that it has bugger all to do with them or us - that our job is to respect the decisions that these parents have made about their children (unless something were grossly amiss).

It is going to blow the family apart and I do not know how it will end; but my DD is clear that the children will never be put in a position where it could happen again.

If it were left to me I would report him to the police, but I am buttoning the lip.

Thank you for the supportive comments - so very helpful, and something that GNet is so good at.

I ran this past DD today and she was shocked speechless. Couldn't believe that someone could behave like this. He really must have as little contact as possible with the children.

Does the FiL realise even part of the enormity of it, Luckygirl?
Even if he doesn't accept that, he can hardly fail to have noticed how upset your DD and SiL have been.

Surely he can see that he has destroyed that trust and the relationship is now on a very different footing?

It has been a difficult day. My DD (who is ill with a virus at the moment) has been on the phone in tears, trying to come to terms with it all, and what should happen next. Very sad is that the older child, who is 6, highly intelligent (years ahead of his age) and very sensitive, suddenly said "I did not like it when XXX hit XXX" - it is a breach of trust and very hard for a little one to deal with. He has been shaken up, having never witnessed anything like that in his life.

We love these children dearly and I just feel so angry about this. I have had to curb that and try and help my DD to think her way through it clearly and to have the courage to put her point over in as calm a way as possible; and to have confidence in the parenting decisions that she and her OH have made. They truly are lovely parents, and they deal so well with discipline in a firm but loving way. What a mess this all is.

Yes, I had the same thought Petallus I wasn't ignoring you Luckygirl