4 yr olds unkind behaviour

When my 2yo GS pokes his elder brother repeatedly while elder bro is absorbed with a TV programme, 2yo knows fine that what he's doing is wrong and annoying. My way of dealing with it (and the child's parents') is to tell him to stop it and if he doesn't to move him away from his brother.

Yes your DD is right. She should get her child to sit down and listen, explain why what she did was wrong, that she makes gran sad when she does things like that, and finally DGD should apologise to you.

No he doesn't mean it in the way an adult would but that doesn't make it OK. He still needs to face consequences so that he learns not to repeat the behaviour.

so when a little toe rag at nursery hits my little darling he doesn't really mean it then ?
Is he so absorbed in his play that he hits her to get her out of his way.
I find that hard to accept.

Is DD wrong to tell her off for hitting others such as throwing her toys at ggran, flicking paint down my good curtains, throwing food etc etc. I know telling them off doesn't always sink in but I thought that with repetition it would .

That was why my 'empathy' was written as it was VQ

Yes, he modified his behaviour, that was the whole point of the exercise. He had a chance to modify it the first time he trangressed, so something more forceful was called for.

He still remembers the one and only occasion that 'nana got mad' - it hasn't damaged him psychologically either.

Too many excuses these days for unacceptable behaviour.

Just to agree with merlotgran and others here. I have a GS and a GD and have not experienced such differences as some have mentioned here between the two. Surely the fact this little boy was saying sorry repeatedly shows he was trying to lessen any impact on his bike riding and he himself knew it wasn't acceptable behaviour? IMHO.

I doubt he developed empathy, Anya. He simply didn't like the consequences and modified his behaviour accordingly.

If a four year old is old enough to ride a bike, he's old enough to know that deliberately driving it at another child is jolly well going to hurt.

As for having to be forcibly removed....I'm afraid in our house that bike would be locked in the garage until some better behaviour could be relied upon.

Spot on jingl it should be obvious to a 4-year old that he has hurt another child. This isn't sbout empathy it's about physical hurt.

When GS3 was a four-year old and hurt anther boy he was told off severely. When he did it again the following day he was yelled at, by me, until he cried. This was quite deliberate - he developed 'empathy' soon after that!

Yes, just realised that Ana, thanks, so I have set it to record.

I didn't mean that he should be allowed to hurt other people without facing consequences but I'm not certain he has the ability to empathise. He's four years old and still mainly egocentric. That's not unusual for a child of his age. I'm sure he was aware he'd hurt the other child but from his egocentric viewpoint it wouldn't have any effect on his game.

We learn what is and isn't acceptable behaviour and the social niceties long before we empathise with others because we quickly discover that we face negative consequences if we behave inappropriately.

It's on tomorrow night, rosequartz. I watched the first series, it was absolutely fascinating.

I remember some on here thought it was too manipulative in that there obviously had to be some set-ups, but it still gave a wonderful bird's eye view of how children that age learn to deal with social situations with which they may not have been familiar.

I hope the TV programme is helpful, Granarchist.
I agree that he should have it explained to him that hurting other children is wrong and that he should try not to do it.
I don't think it matters if he can empathise or not, at the moment, as long as it is made clear to him how to behave.

he repeatedly said sorry on the way home
He does have to learn that his behaviour is not acceptable, though, and say sorry to the little girl rather than to his mother who was not the one hurt, but who is the one to explain to him that it is wrong.

I do think girls have more of an awareness and empathy of other people's feelings and whether or not they are hurt than boys of a similar age.

I must remember to record that programme tonight!

I think 'instinct' should come into play, rather than 'empathy'.

They don't need empathy to see that the other child is hurt. It should be obvious, even to a four year old. Especially when blood is flowing. Was the other child crying? That should have clinched it for the offender.

He needs talking to.

I would be attempting to deal with his behaviour*now*. Sorry to disagree with everyone else but you say it's not the first time it's happened and this time there was an 'amount of blood'

I wouldn't be waiting until he is seven because if he carries on hurting other children he won't have any friends as they'll all be avoiding him.

That is all so helpful! I'll tell her to watch the programme! I'm sure we just have to emphasise that some behaviour is not acceptable and wait for the magic day when they understand why!

By the age of about 6 to 7 a child develops true empathy. Before that age, they may look like they are empathising, when really they are just picking up on and mimicking the emotions of the other child. All children develop at their own rate, and at 4 years old I wouldn't be too worried. If he still lacks empathy at 7, then I think it would be time to worry.

In general girls acquire language quicker than boys - obviously there are exceptions.
Perhaps it follows that they are earlier to be able to understand when it's explained to them about the feelings of others.
Luckygirl - I would think even 6 or 7 is too young for many children.
They accept that a behaviour is either good or not good (ie punishable) but don't understand why until later.
I know plenty of adults who say you shouldn't do so and so because you might get caught. Some never develop empathy.

The SecretLife Of 4 Year Olds tomorrow night on Channel 4 may be of some interest.I seem. to remember from the earlier programme that some children were really quite nasty to others.

He was probably so intent on riding the bike and the game he was playing that he didn't register the seriousness of what he'd done. The series of apologies were because he will have learned by now that the word 'sorry' seems to solve a variety of problems even if he doesn't understand why.

Yes, boys are different ( my boy was different to my girls anyway) girls may not have the empathy any earlier, but are quicker to cotton on to what is socially more acceptable.

Do boys develop this later I wonder? Sorry if that sounds sexist! - perhaps mums of boys on here might have some observations - I only had girls.