neglected house my grandchildren live in

How sad for you, you must feel like you are treading on eggshells. I was a volunteer for a number of years for the charity HOMESTART, visiting families who were struggling - referred by the health visitor or clinic nurse. I saw some homes that were absolutely filthy but the children loved. I think advice came better from me as a stranger than from a family member. I spent one day a week encouraging them to clean and to cook. Baby steps were the key. I felt in the end I was more like a family friend and was told many things that the Mother hadn't shared with anyone else. Perhaps it would be an idea for you to get in touch with the family's G.P. and let him/her know the situation.

My goodness there are some awfully judgemental comments here. I'd like to bet that there's another perspective on this that we aren't being made aware of. When mine were small I struggled but a MiL who turned up saying 'Let me do some housework' (seen by her son who was used to being waited on as being wonderful) was the same person who criticised me because I didn't iron the (two) baby's terry nappies, and who went through drawers reading our correspondence and making tut tutting sounds in every room. She was nearer to causing me to be depressed than to curing it. I'd been a neglected child and found it very difficult to do all the work necessary to keep house when I'd never been taught how to manage, what would have been most helpful would have been the odd word of praise ('That looks pretty' or similar) and 'Let me get you a cup of tea and a biscuit, I'll watch the kids while you enjoy it'.

Maybe the daughter hoped the wedding and honeymoon would make all her hopes and dreams come true. Now she's back home with the situation as before.
Stansgran - a tumble dryer is a good idea - as long as there is space for it and money to run it.
Whose responsibility is the mould? Is it a rented house?
Inishowen - so much would depend upon the social worker, reporting her could go badly wrong. Children in care (if the situation is regarded as that bad might not help anyone).

Tumble dryers are a boon, but they're expensive to run.

Why not treat them to a dehumidifier? It's drying clothes in doors that makes the mold, that. A tumble dryer as a gift would solve a few things that worry you. Don't say anything to them, I know exactly how you feel but it's their life and as long as the kids are cared for and happy unfortunately you can ask for little more. If she wants help by all means do cleaning but it sounds to me that they just want to live their life how they want. You can't do anything, just don't risk loosing contact with them all. It's not worth it.

I'm sorry but I think I'd get tough on her. The 3 year old is in nursery, and a crawling baby presumably naps. This dd has a supportive mum in ginger, which is more than many young mothers have.

The OP wouldn't have posted if she weren't concerned. Even accounting for a differential in standards, and acknowledging that a bit of dirt is not going to harm, it does appear as though the dd -and the dp-haven't a clue.

I think there is an undercurrent of something else here-I think the fact that the OP seems reluctant to tackle the dd on her housekeeping is worrying. You fear that your daughter will hold you to ransom over your GC, OP, and that can't be good.

The "depression" argument doesn't hold water for me either; after all, she's managed to get married and go on honeymoon.

The OP has had her children to stay recently. Damp and mould are horrid things to live with. So are snotty children. The clothes on the radiators make things worse. If you could afford it could you give her a tumble dryer. I did for my DD when I saw their washing draped over everywhere. It was a late wedding present. Sometimes it is impossible to know where to start when things get on top of you. I have a husband who has not a clue about the amount of housework he generates but he is a not the same generation as op's SIL who should know better.

I know someone who lived in a house like that, with her three children. Her "friend" reported her to social services! Someone called out and gave her advice about cleaning up, and stopping the dog from making a mess. They also informed the children's father, who is living elsewhere. Maybe a visit from a social worker would be the kick up the backside that your daughter needs? If I were in your shoes I think I would offer to help clean up, before taking any official steps.

Your DIL might be depressed or might just be bone idle but, either way, there is not much you can do about it as she and your DS might well restrict access to your DGC if you say anything. It's not a nice situation to be in and I have every sympathy with you. I also have great sympathy for your concerns that the state of the DIL's house might be making the children ill, poor mites.

You do suggest, however, that the children enjoy coming to you and that they have noticed how nice it is at your house. As they grow older and can discern differences they will value your love, cleanliness and orderliness more and more as they begin to perceive the contrast with their own home. It is a bitter comfort to take but a comfort, nonetheless.

I should just keep on good terms with your DS and DIL and trust to time. Perhaps it would be an idea to keep an eye on the DIL's state of mind in case she really is depressed which would then affect the DGC.

Unless the living conditions are making the children I would keep out of it everyone has different standards as to cleaning I must admit my youngest DD has what to me is a messy house and doesn't seem bothered by it there are always pots and pans in the sink and jobs like cleaning the oven or windows don't happen often however she is a wonderful mother and has lots of friends and I couldn't wish for a kinder loving daughter.

I am sure she knows the place is a mess without being told so keep mum.
It has got like that gradually and my thoughts are that its beyond her now and she just cannot see where to start. The children keep her busy and she will be worn out at the end of the day.
Would it help if you offered to have the children for a weekend as a treat for them? I'm sure the children would love it and maybe it would give their parents a chance to make a start, working together with no distractions? I would not give that as a reason, just say it's a treat for the kids. If it goes well, it could be repeated.
It is so easy for a young mum to be overwhelmed with kids, housework, shopping, sleepless nights, cooking, never a chance to draw breath. Even if they don't tackle the house first time, maybe they will a second time. But she must know you are on her side so no criticism, just loving support. Good luck.

dear gingernut31

I am so sorry to hear about your concerns and I would be upset and worried too. However, you have done just about as much as you can do by raising the issue with your daughter. I'm afraid if she hasn't responded then I think you need to keep your own counsel. There could be a number of reasons for their home being as it is:

1 Some people just don't worry about cleanliness and clutter and to them its OK

2 Your daughter might be tired and just not have the energy to do anything other than look after the children at the moment. You might find when she gets more time to herself she will buck up

3 It is quite possible your daughter does have depression; this could even be post natal depression as this can occur from anything up to two years after a child is born

4 Have they got money worries? Sometimes having too little cash can cause people to suffer from low mood and frequently, depression. Does her husband not help her out in the home?

I guess you have asked her if you can help her out with the cleaning? If not would it make things flare up again do you think?

At the end of the day maintaining contact with your grandchildren is the most important thing. Try to enjoy them and not worry. If you feel they are being neglected then of course that's a different matter.

JessM great post! I asked earlier in the thread whether their health was suffering but not had a response.

These days my house is spotless, yet like you JessM when mine were small my house was pretty grubby.

I think we all have different standards and our standards change as our priorities change.

It is a difficult and sensitive situation. I often go m to see my daughter and she is stressed . I tell her to go out for a couple of hours and ask her would she like me to tidy around. I clean up buy fresh flowers and then say I hope that makes you feel better as I appreciate with children something has to give. She does comment I hope you do not judge and I tell her I have been there myself when there were days I could not face the day and it does open up dialogue between us. I offer to come again soon and she can visit a friend have her hair done etc., and I give the house a good clean. Things are not as deteriorated as with your daughter but start slow and gradually build up. There are lots of pressures on young people today and when your in a spiral you cannot see things clearly as what may have happened to your daughter. Keep your foot in the door and do what you can Good Luck

There's lived in, messy, untidy, mucky and health hazard. Where this fits on the scale may also depend on one's point of view!

Please please please do something about this, yes they will think you are interfering and yes you may get threatened with not being able to see the children again but this is child neglect - and what emotional love are the children getting? I would be very very concerned if I saw any child living like that you need to step in to protect the children, they are the innocents in this. You must be blunt with them say you are concerned and act on your concerns please for the children's sakes

My house was pretty messy and not very clean when the kids were little. By the time I had given my all to being a mum to a toddler that never got the idea of playing on his own, I had no motivation left for tidying and scrubbing floors. I'm sure MIL scandalised. But of course her son never picked up a mop.
Try not to be judgemental and remember that children in grubbier houses seem to grow up with fewer allergies than those brought up in a spotless home.

I would not have minded anyone doing cleaning up for me. If you are in her house offer to help with a meal and do the cleaning up on auto pilot.

My daughter still seems exhausted with a 9mnth old who does not sleep well and a three yr old. The house is not unhygenic but it is very very cluttered. My daughter has never got into a routine.

She will be returning to work soon and both children will be in nursery so she might get some more time to sort things out if she is not on a shift when the children are at nursery.

It is upsetting to see your children struggling.

Maybe your daughter would be interested in flylady.com?
Flylady advises starting with baby steps, not to try to do too much causing burnout.
She gives lots of useful hints, like choosing something that you will do for 15 mins only, or less, then stop.

As you say you know your daughter would like you to help, ask her what would be the best way you could do that.

My daughter and sil only got married last week so can't really see them having relationship problems,my grandchildren have had a cough and snotty noses for months now and after seeing what the house is like with the moldy ceilings and possible bacteria from the moldy food it's probably caused by that, they use to have a family nurse for the 1st year of my grandsons life so the house was pretty tidy but a little after she stopped coming I noticed a difference.even their little dog is kept in the kitchen with the door locked and isn't house trained,she's never been the tidiest person even when she lived at home but never ever as bad as this

It sounds awful and I would be very worried too.

Untidiness is not the end of the world but rotting food and mold everywhere must surely be a health risk and not a cosy or homely environment for anybody, especially children.

The fact that the house was previously quite well looked after does indicate that your daughter is depressed/unwell and is just finding everything too much to cope with. I not sure what the answer is other than, as you said, you doing small amounts to help her without it looking like there has been a big clean up. (Make sure she is happy for you to give a hand). She is maybe lacking in confidence, energy and motivation at the moment, and criticisms will only make her feel more useless and miserable. So it's probably best that you resist the very natural urge to express your worries (even through facial expression) but instead try to remain upbeat, calm and friendly.

I wondered whether she and her husband are having relationship problems. I also wondered why he is so opposed to you helping out, given that he's unwilling to do so himself. Does he not care that the house is filthy or does he feel that it's your daughter's "duty" to sort things out on her own?

I really hope things get better for you all.

Are their living conditions making them ill?

I'm not expecting it to be spotless just hygienic,seeing mouldy tomatoes in fridge and rotting food where kids play can't be good at all

My son and DIL's house is pretty minging but that's their standard not mine. We all have different ways of living and it's important that we don't impose our own standards on other people.

That sounds like the best idea to be supportive to your daughter and give some help to get things started. Maybe her husband is resistant to you helping because he knows that he should be doing more. Best wishes