holidays

Just don't get your point here Gilly. The planning is done by the teachers, a/ for the trip itself and b/ preparing work for each and every lesson whilst they are absent- and discussing it with the person left in charge in their department or year- to ensure the work is understood and will go ahead as planned for the children left behind.

Mind you, I have to say I love the way they do it here, and in FRance too- where every trip involves THE WHOLE class, and not just those whose parents allow it or can afford it. Partly though fundraising, partly through subsidies for those who are on benefits, etc.

My grandson will be spending a day in Disneyland, Paris, during his school trip to France. I don't begrudge him doing it, but I am slightly !

Well now we are really seeing the double standards aren't we?

Trips during term-time are all very carefully planned for btw. I used to arrange FRench and German exchanges- myself and the teachers involved had to plan and set work for every single lesson for the duration- and had many a meeting to discuss the work and how the classes would be covered within the department to avoid disruption to the students

Not applicable in my DGD's case I'm afraid granjura as she and her 2 (year 5)classmates took the last minute places of three year 6 pupils who dropped out at the last second. I doubt very much whether there was time for any planning at all.

its a matter of definition. One parents idea of a school trip may not be the schools idea

Not sure what you mean by this Jane10 ? correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that teachers taking children rockclimbing, canoeing, swimming etc. is more educational than parents doing the same?

If the schools decided to take every case on its own merits- it would take up masses and masses of meeting time for Senior staff, Heads of Year and dpt and Governors. With parents saying things 'oh but mine is going to France and will do an educational blog- and therefore I should be allowed but not them, because they are going to Benidorm to eat fish and chips', etc, etc, etc- it would go on and on for ever. I am sure Senior staff and Governors have better things to discuss and fight for at the moment- truly.

oooops, I do think I got a bit ariated here- but for excellent reasons ;)

gillybob its a matter of definition. One parents idea of a school trip may not be the schools idea. I think schools have to have rules for everyone otherwise why not just have your children pop in as and when it suits parents. Trips organised by the school are a different matter from holiday convenience. I'd refer you to granjura's posts. She says it all and its based on professional experience.

Trips during term-time are all very carefully planned for btw. I used to arrange FRench and German exchanges- myself and the teachers involved had to plan and set work for every single lesson for the duration- and had many a meeting to discuss the work and how the classes would be covered within the department to avoid disruption to the students. It took masses of time and energy- but we did it because we truly felt it was worthwhile. And no, those exchanges were not just jollies for the staff- and again, took masses of time and energy, to plan properly, to ensure proper and valuable work is set and later marker- and during the whole trip. If you haven't done it, you have NO IDEA!

Coming back from a ski trip run at half-term where on are with the children 24/7 after an overnight trip on a coach- to then get another overnighter on a coach returning on Saturday evening- to then prepare the work for the week/s ahead on the Sunday- yep, you have NO IDEA. Again, I did it because I truly felt it was worthwhile and massively valuable.

Only one term lillie- and the Summer term- but it was sufficient for her to become bilingual and never lose it and in year 8, which was the least disruptive.
At my last school, I ran ski/snowboarding trips at half-term- and in my own time one evening a week (straight to Tamworth from school- and not getting home till about 9pm) - going by coach ovenight to save parents money.

Obviously you feel very strongly about this Jane10 but how can there be a fine for parents taking children on an educational trip and no fine if the trip is arranged by the school during term time. Double standards or what?

I am asking a perfectly fair question, what happens to the fine money? it does not go back to the school that's for certain as I asked the head teacher.

It is not a money making scheme it is a fine for truancy! It should be much higher too.

If the absence is approved by the school eg school trips the teacher will know in advance and it will affect several pupils so nothing new will be introduced.

What a load of rubbish pollyperkins my DGD was one of only 3 children from her (year5) class that went on the trip. The rest of the group were made up of 21 children from 3 other classes. Are you seriously suggesting that the teachers would have planned lessons for 4 classes in order to accommodate the missing children? .......and considering 2 of the teachers went with them them.....

Exactly Trisher It just proves that the whole "fine" thing is a ridiculous money making scam. What do they do with the money anyway?

Granjura talks a lot of sense. A sense which can't be helped is one thing. Holidays are another. And often (not always of course in case I get shot down) but often the children who are taken from school for a long holiday are the very children who find it hard to catch up. All of it causes problems for both teachers and pupils but most teachers do bend over backwards to help them catch up. If the absence is approved by the school eg school trips the teacher will know in advance and it will affect several pupils so nothing new will be introduced.
By the way when I mentioned fractions I was speaking generally as it had been mentioned earlier and I thought it was a good example. In my case (I taught biology) a better example at GCSE level would be introducing genetics which many especially in lower sets find hard to grasp.

Of course, but if you had taken her for a similar holiday in term time you'd probably be looking at a fine.

My DGD (10) took part in a 4 day, school outward bound trip in the week before Easter. She is a very sporty child and relished learning to rock climb and canoe.
I am not sure how often she studied spellings or fractions during the time away, but that's okay if the school approved isn't it?

Lillie schools still do exchanges and school trips in term time, but of course the week spent skiing, trotting around a European city in a group, or partying with French students doesn't affect their learning at all. It does affect their parent's pockets with most trips costing far more than a holiday would. The children who don't get to go because their parents can't afford it are left to continue working in school (minus the help of the teachers who are on the trip). Madness isn't it!
granjura Many secondary schools rely on some children being absent because of their behaviour.

Wow! A year abroad to learn the language - now that's a valuable experience, and almost a holiday too!

I think I remember being given a week or so off in school time to do an exchange and the benefits were enormous. My language went from classroom stuff to learning "proper" talk. Being around 15 years old at the time, however, it might have been a good idea that I wasn't allowed to stay a year, because I remember falling in love with every French boy in the school I attended!

trisher- perhaps you were a primary school teacher. I only taught secondary, became a 6th form specialist in the end. But I also went to primary school, had children in primary school and have GCs in primary school (and they parents would never ever take them out of term time- despite the fact they are both very busy with their work and it would be VERY convenient to do so..). At the end of the day, I'd say that perhaps it's also just a question of basic respect for a very expensive system offered for free to your children, for the staff and other children and parents. Leave it a that.

BTW our DD2 spent a whole term abroad at a school on an exchange basis when she was 12. With the approval of all parties, and with us ensuring she would catch up on return. She was very bright and well ahead- and came back bilingual, which she has never lost. We then had the whole Summer to ensure she had caught up in all subjects before returning to her school in the autumn term. A bit different.

Like you anno, I spent a lot of time off school. In my first year at primary I had measles, chickenpox and scarlet fever, and developed poorly ears which meant every time I got a cold I got earache.
I was lucky in that my mother ensured I did do work at home and spent a lot of time reading with me.

I look at this from two angles, as a teacher with 30 years experience, children taking holidays has never been the huge problem some seem to be determined to make it. Absences for other reasons has always been a problem and continues to be so but a lot of these are the people whose behaviour is difficult to change, and who it is sometimes quite agreeable not to have in school. It is therefore much easier to target the families who really care about their children and whose behaviour can be changed i.e. those who take holidays. So although their attendance would not really be hugely affected by 1 or 2 weeks off a year they are penalised to make the figures look good.
granjura your theory only works if you believe that every single minute spent in a classroom is essential to learning. In actual fact research shows a complete lack of any connection between time spent in the classroom and actual learning. (I know shocking isn't it)
I also come at it from having a dyslexic child who dropped out of school at 14 but who now has an M.A. As I said before the value of school learning is frequently overestimated.

I had a whole term off school when I was six, because I'd had pneumonia and it was the coldest winter on record (1947). However, I'd come out of hospital as a very good reader because I'd had nothing else to do for three weeks; my teacher sent me maths to do and my parents made sure that I did it. My teacher even came to visit me. I lost nothing by those months of absence because by no means was I on holiday! I kept up with the class so well that, on my return, I was able to be one of the group that went up half a year to the next class. Children on holiday might be given assignments to do while they're away but I'm sure that the attractions of Disneyland would serve only as distractions.

Trisher, I quote:

children who are ill, children who learn more slowly, and the children of parents who move around a lot. They disrupt learning. But they don't because a good teacher factors in these things and deals with them.

exactly- but the above can't be helped - and teachers do factor them in, and bend over backward, in their own time often, preparing special worksheets and other stuff, going over it with them, checking they've got it, marking it, and then going over it again so they understand where they went wrong. Of course, with gusto, and pleasure, and dedication - however long it takes. Even if it means travelling to the child's home, after school- with all the necessary materials, etc.

But because of holidays- no, no and more no- the whole class suffers. Often those with learning difficulties who do NOT go on holiday and need all the time and 1 to 1 they can get. In large classes as we have in the UK (here where I live teachers would tear their hair out if they ever had more than 18 in a class- and that is a lot)...we children of all abilities, special needs, children who do not speak English yet, etc, - no, no, no - not fair on the staff, not fair on the kids.

DS1 took O-levels and, owing to very unfortunate family circumstances, didn't do even half as well as he should have. I then sent him to 6th form college to catch up which he did, but had to take GCSEs as it was the changeover year - 1988. There was also a sort of transitional exam, 16+, in which he did Biology (I think) in the 1987 autumn re-sits.

Thanks for that Lillie, I thought that DS year were the last to sit O levels.
I am so pleased to hear that they are returning to the old style exams

1988. I wouldn't be surprised if your 2nd child wasn't one of the last years to sit O Levels [harrigran].
The good thing is that from this year the GCSE exams are going back to the old O Level style - no more modules and assessments, the pupil will be marked solely on what he/she produces in the exam. Finally some sense returns!

I know DS and DD did O levels but they are 47 and 44, can anyone tell me what year they changed to GCSE ?
GC has a teacher that doesn't believe in learning times tables, she says she couldn't get away with them so is not pushing her pupils to learn them.