holidays

Of course Harrigran, it's not the fact that these children don't get a day out that makes them disadvantaged - It's their family situations that does it!

You're right Gillybob - sometimes I just sorted out the funding for a day out! Amazing what joy that can bring for a young person who never goes anywhere or does anything fun with their family - but those days out were usually possible in the holiday periods and didn't involve any time off school. Sometimes it just involved finding busfare and picknic treats (how lucky our own children/grandchildren are).

Just to reiterate my earlier post, I think that term time holidays should be allowed but that teachers should not get the blame when the children fall behind. Children will fall behind. That's a given.

I agree with Gillybob. Childen should be allowed to take holidays during term-time. When they are very young it would not interfere with their education too much. Perhaps older children should decide for themselves though. We took our children away on holiday when we wanted to, to get bookings, to avoid crowds of people and to save money on off-season rates.

I agree Trisher . And on that note shall be flying off with our 2 youngest grandsons in 3 days for a holiday in term time !! Of course before everyone's tells me how damaged their education will be they are only 2 and 4 {smile]

But its been a learning experience already , we've talked about air travel , different cultures and geography ( oh and Mickey Mouse )

Oh well done him! I think more people should just do it if their children's attendance is good. Thanks NanaandGrampy

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-can-take-kids-holiday-6647196

A precedent?

I know that it is still a problem gilly, especially here in the north east. We visited places we could walk to, as a teenager I used to walk to Durham and back that is a round trip of 24 miles.

We live in a seaside town Harri and the cost of a "day out" (bearing in mind this is 2016) is the cost of a local bus ride and yet in my DGC's school there are children who have yet to enjoy this "luxury" .

School trips are subject to stringent risk assessments. I often had to sign off on these when I chaired a governing body. I wonder who imposes these standards now that so many schools are no longer under the control of LEAs.
When I was 15 we had a visit to France, involving pupils and staff from all over the county. The teachers dropped us off in the Place de la Concorde and told us when to be back while they went off for a smoke and a drink - as did some of the kids! Not me, I hasten to add. This was 60 years ago this year. Surprisingly, nobody got lost or arrested, not even the teachers. No risk assessments in those days.

I am surprised to learn that you are seriously disadvantaged if you can not afford days out, that must mean for half of my life I was disadvantaged.

it is a really growing up and confidence building experience which is truly different to a family holiday.

granjura I'm sure that every school trip you organised was done so carefully and meticulously with the safety of the pupils in your care of paramount importance which is as it should be.

Unfortunately, from our experience, and that of others, it is not always the case. However, I would say that a school trip DD went on did build her confidence - left to their own devices in a large Spanish city at the age of 13; teacher - in loco parentis as far as we were concerned - sent them off with a map while she and her husband did their own thing.
Some of the hair-raising stories I have heard from pupils - not teachers - about school trips makes me very fearful for my DGC.

it does take a lot of effort and planning- but it can be done- even if the location has to be adjusted to account for increased costs
No, it can't always be done, some parents just cannot have time off when they wish. Those in the Forces for instance. Leave is not granted to suit the individual.

how can there be a fine for parents taking children on an educational trip and no fine if the trip is arranged by the school during term time. Double standards or what?
I do think that, like many other things, it has become a money-making exercise gillybob.

I think the children taken out of school by parents who cannot take time off during school holidays are not the children that are the cause for concern. The ones who are of concern are those who continually play truant, whose parents can't be bothered to get them to school and take them shopping instead, those who spend their days hanging around the park or the chippy.
Why else would there be jobs for Truancy Officers?

Children on holiday might be given assignments to do while they're away but I'm sure that the attractions of Disneyland would serve only as distractions
But not all children who have the time off are going to Disneyland. DGS had an extra two weeks off to visit the UK with the blessing of the school who thought it a great opportunity for broadening his horizons. He went down a coalmine, saw castles, London sights, museums etc, none of which he would have seen where he lives.

LOL I was 15 when I saw the sea for the first time- actually when I went abroad for the first time (apart from walking across the border into France as we lived so close). We always had our holidays 1 hour from home, by a little lake in a shack without electricity and with outdoor toilets. All the kids slept in the attic in sleeping bags- we had a ball.

At the schools I taught, all the plans were scheduled years ahead so that parents knew from day one what was available and in which year, so they could plan ahead and save. And all the trips were planned to cost down to absolute minimum- yes, often meaning staff had to travel overnight by coach- etc, etc.

For the kids who could not go on longer trips, several of the staff, including me, used to organise long week-ends Youth Hostelling in the Peaks or in Norfolk- yep, in our own time of course- leaving after school in a Friday and getting back late Sunday afternoon. So worth while. Disneyland - totally agree, big NON from me too.

Leave you to it.

I am absolutely reading what you are saying granjura and I'm sorry but I still feel that there are double standards . We will agree to disagree.

There are children in my DGC's school NotSpagetti who don't know what its like to even visit the seaside for the day, never mind have a holiday, bless them.

I remember helping out with a trip to the seaside when my DGS was in reception (last year). It was quite tearful to see some poor children who were so overjoyed by the simple experience that many others take for granted. The parents were asked for a £1 contribution for which the children would get an ice cram cornet. I can't remember the exact figure but something like half the class's parents refused to pay the £1 and appeared quite happy that their child might be left behind (or not be given an ice cream). They weren't of course because school funds picked up the bill.

Sorry granjura you may have organised excellent trips with great educational content but just the same as family holidays differ so do school trips. I've no objection to children being given a bit of fun and a visit to Disneyland, but it is the double standard I object to. School trips are very expensive and numbers are limited so participation depends on ability to pay and getting in first. My DS worked out that for the same price as sending DGS on a school trip to Barcelona they could both go for a few days. Even DGS realised it was unreasonably expensive. And they are in term time. And there are children out of the same form left behind. And there are teachers missing. But the school copes because it isn't really difficult and because they want to.

I worked for many years with extremely disadvantaged families who couldn't afford even days out. Sometimes I obtained a few days away (usually at a caravan site off season) for families who otherwise would have nothing at all.
Often it was through amazing charities such as www.familyholidayassociation.org.uk/about-us/

I loved these charities for the "new starts" they brought, for the opportunity for children (and parents) to have some fun in a grim situation and for the sense of "being normal" for a few days that these short holidays gave to my families.

For THESE children, whose life experience was almost all pretty sad, the teachers loved these holidays too. Essentially, the boost to self esteem and other benefits outweighed the problems of 'catching up' on return. If you want to read more about why these holidays are important take a look at the Family Holiday Association's website under the heading "Why Holidays".

I think permission to holiday in term time should be entirely up to the head teacher - THEY know who will/won't get a break - and also what value it might be to the child.

I'll leave it at that Gilly- because somehow I don't think you are 'reading' what I am saying, somehow.

Few teachers will run trips in their own holidays (as I did with ski trips) for some very bizarre reasons... and few parents would send their kids on trips during the school holidays either- because this is when they ... take their own school holidays (surprisingly- yes, the great majority). So trips with cousins and family can normally be taken in holiday time- and I am TOTALLY aware of how difficult that can be to organise, as DH was very limited in when he could take holidays- it does take a lot of effort and planning- but it can be done- even if the location has to be adjusted to account for increased costs.

The kind of experience being away from family and having to share and cooperate with others- is indeed totally different to a family holiday, even with cousins imho. You disagree, that is fine.

But again, Heads, Senior staff and Governors have better things to do then discuss ad infernitum who to allow a term-time holiday or not... and then go through appeals, etc- with the real problems schools face today- and teachers too-- and that is my main issue here. Last post- we are going round and round in circles to nowhere- and I'm sure I won't change your mind.

But, and I repeat- if ever those parents require special help in special circumstances, or a sought after place for a younger sibbling, etc- I'm sure they will be the first to complain loudly and bitterly about how unfair it all is.

I'll just be happy if he enjoys it, especially seeing as we paid for the flippin' trip!

granjura

So trips with a grandparent, aunt or uncle and cousins they very rarely get to see, doing exactly the same activities is wrong ? but with their school chums is okay?

Double standards again.

My point granjura is that my DGD's teacher could not have made advance plans of any kind as she and her 2 friends were only chosen to go the day before they left. Their teacher did not go on the trip.

Shouldn't be allowed jings the GN teacher police will have him and he will suffer for the rest of his life. just think of those crucial fractions he has missed or the list of spellings? There again if he's with teachers that's different they are probably doing algebra as they ride on the Terror Tower.

Actually gilly, yes, I'd say so. Trips with other children involve collaboration, sharing, being away from family, and so much more- it is a really growing up and confidence building experience which is truly different to a family holiday. Again, what looks like 'just canoing' will also involve very careful planning to bring in so many different elements re cooperation and confidence building, but also geography, culture/humanities, language learning, and so much more.