Difficulties with grandchildren's nanny (employed person, not other grandparent).

Zorro, the children are 3 & 6 years old ( three and a half and just turned six, to be eaxact); one is in her second year of primary school, the other will start school - rather young cos she's summer born - next September.
I think I've inadvertently given an inaccurate picture of what my DD & SIL do at the weekends: they are not busy with their own social lives to the exclusion of their children - they are getting together with friends, some old some new, who also have children and thus maintaining a lovely friendship group for themselves & all children. DH and I did the same as young parents. Obviously, though, this does not often include grandparents. Indeed, when DD & SIL want to go out without the children, that's great because we or the other grandma get to babysit, which both we & the children enjoy. The other thing which takes up their weekends is the endless round of birthday parties which all children seem to go to these day. (Now I sound like an old fogey!).
Because my daughter works full-time, it has suited her for grandparents to see something of the children during the working week, as she then knows that good contact is being maintained. This current nanny, however, never wanted this arrangement and is becoming more & more resistant. She has told me that it is more appropriate for children to see their grandparents & other family members at weekends and that I should take it up with my daughter if I feel that 30 minutes per fortnight with the little one means DH & I are not seeing enough of her. On the fortnightly visits the nanny allows 30-40 minutes with the youngest child before whisking her off out ('for her social life'), and DH & I then have the older child for another two and a half hours.
The reason for the particular falling out on Tuesday was because I was told by the nanny that the usual 30 minutes with the youngest child would not happen this week .. and when I asked the reason, I was given two different and equally spurious reasons for it. Unfortunately (and unwisely) I showed that I was unhappy about this and it led to her accusing me of being rude to her (in challenging her? Okay a bit crossly, I admit). And thus we have the present situation.

I just feel so sorry for you, and also the other Grandma. The extra detail you have given provides a lot more information. I can understand how you must feel. Perhaps you might be better with a conversation with your daughter saying you feel very left out. It's not as if you have done anything wrong in all this, you come across as so caring and loving - very sad. It does sound to me as if the Nanny is making up all the rules as she goes along. Goodness me, she is the one being paid for her services, and if you for instance want to take the children out or play with them or whatever you and they might want to do, you are still family and she is not.

Is it possible that you don't have a Nanny problem so much as a daughter problem

^ before I read that quote that was exactly what I was wondering.

If your daughter felt that your weekday time with your grandchildren was a priority she would instruct the nanny to prioritise it. This is your issue.

I think there are many circumstances where a nanny could rightfully say "just because mum and dad are here doesn't mean I'm in charge" e.g. if the arrangement is that the nanny is still on duty for home work or childcare while the parents cooked dinner or did some paper work or finished up a bit of work from home.

Why is it more important for your GCs to have a nanny-structured social life than a warm loving relationship with their grandparents?

I wonder what kind of upbringing the nanny had... I wonder what the nanny tells her charges about their grandparents?

to you!

Why is it more important for your GCs to have a nanny-structured social life than a warm loving relationship with their grandparents?

is a question for the OPs daughter not for the nanny

I'm betting that if the nanny's employers told her that faciliating the kids relationship with the grandparents was a condition of her job, she'ld do it regardless of her personal opinions.

But we don't know how much really is the nannies opinions here or if she's being the mouthpiece of the parents personal priorities here and it's sort of "shoot the messenger" and she's taking the fall - after all she did suggest that the OP take it up with her daughter if she wasn't happy with it

notanan OP says in her second post...

This nanny seems to need to be 'top dog', even to the extent of denigrating my daughter's & son-in-law's parenting skills - never mind my competence: she says things to the children like "You only mess around with your food when Granny's here" or "I'm in charge even when Mummy & Daddy are here; you behave for me".

Sounds like the nanny is the source and not the messenger. She seems to be controlling this family. If the daughter allows this, how very strange.... JMHO

ETA
Not that the nanny could or should not be in charge whilst parents are also there, it's the overbearing verbal attitude that is strange....

Lewlew even so, if her employer told her that it was important and a condition of her employment / key task in her role, she'ld probably do it.

If the daughter is happy with how the nanny is prioritising things / running things, which she is from the sounds of it, then the OP is falling pretty far down her list of priorities and it's between mother and daughter, not between the OP and the nanny if you see what I mean?

mutti, this obviously is very painful for all the grandparents and yes, there is a risk that your grandchildren will lose out. I am intrigued that the nanny takes out the younger child and leaves you with your elder granddaughter, do you know where they go? Is it something that is only available on that particular day or perhaps something not appropriate for the older girl? If you can find out gently, or get your husband to, that might help you both to argue knowledgeably for a different day/time. I so hope your husband will be successful in his negotiations. I can understand your instinctive reaction, really don't think you can be blamed for it, your frustration came from a place of love. Don't give up, I am sure your daughter will understand eventually. She is very reliant on the nanny and there may be a desire, not necessarily conscious, to keep her happy. She will know you will stick with her no matter what, she doesn't know the same about the nanny.

Another suggestion is to have the other Grandma with you at THE meeting, or telephone her to get her input to present to your daughter. I think you can prove that the Nanny is systematically destroying "good contact". It's not as if your daughter is the Royal Family, or President of USA now is it, although I do appreciate how busy she and her husband might be.

Cornergran, your last two sentences really hit the nail on the head. Whatever happens, my husband & I and the other grandma want what's best for our children & grandchildren. This makes us vulnerable yet uniquely valuable. I have to believe that my daughter knows this in her heart, even if the stresses of daily life get in the way. I'm trying to be philosophical about this situation ... also recognising that, in so many ways, it's a trivial problem compared to what others have to face in their lives. Thank you all for your empathy and thoughtful suggestions.

I have not read the thread fully Mutti but as a nurse I have concerns about child protection with this nanny. It sounds like she is trying to take over the role of the mother. i think you should try and speak to your daughter and SIL about this as it is not a normal relationship and as they are so busy they might be trying to take the easiest option rather than the best option for your grandchildren who are missing out on both sets of grandparents love and attention so the nanny can see her own friends and family. Good luck with this. It is not healthy xxxx

Working parents do have busy and stressful lives in many cases, but it is the life they chose. The fact that the nanny is efficient and saves the parents from day-to-day worrying does not mean they can abnegate all responsibility for the children's welfare, and having a loving relationship with grandparents contributes greatly to this welfare.

My eldest grandson is 26 now and away at university, but when he and his brothers were younger I and his parents used to split the holidays between us, with either me staying there or the boys coming to me. They are all very loving towards me and the eldest came to me to talk through his plans to study Japanese at uni and kept in touch by FB or Viber when he spent the last year in Tokyo. He even wanted to come back when I had my heart attack but his mum persuaded him to wait until they had more news, which luckily was good after my triple by-pass.

Mufti I m glad you cleared up the bit about the social weekends

I don't think you overstepped the mark at all in being put out because you were 'limited' by the Nannie
I too think you need a long talk to your daughter This lady sounds as if she has completely taken over her position and is calling all the shots I don't think you have in any way overstepped the mark
I d be mortified if an outsider told me I could only have thirty minutes with my grandchild
Surely it's mum and dad first grandparents second and hired help third it seems to me as if it's Nannie first, mum and dad second, and bugger off anyone else

Does your DD know that the other grandma never sees the children at all, nowadays?

Your DD knows you will stick with her, no matter what. Your DGDs need to get that feeling too, about all their GPs.
To do that they need to have contact, in a happy, relaxed way.

Could you ask your DD to arrange with the nanny when the GPs can see the children? If the nanny has been involved in choosing a suitable time, surely she should be more likely to stick to it.

I think you're not far off the truth, BlueBelle. FarNorth, the other grandma and DH & I do see the grandchildren some weekends, so it's not the case that there's no contact that way. However, it would suit DD and SIL for us to see DGs sometimes during the week .. in order to take the pressure off them regarding weekends. We are all three of us happy to join in with any activities with the nanny (as we did with all the previous ones: trips to the park, school collection, playgroups etc) or to have the children all to ourselves which frees up the nanny to attend to other duties. It's simply and sadly the case that, unlike all the previous nannies, this one resents us being around at all and in any way - hence her passive aggressive behaviour in creating increasing obstacles.
Incidentally, I cannot find anything else on this subject anywhere on the internet(all discussion in any way related seems to be about using grandparents as care-givers and how to set the parameters of that), so either mine is a very unusual situation or it's a subject waiting to be looked at. In these days of more & more parents both working full time from necessity or choice (which I fully respect), it may become more of an issue .. as yet another aspect of family dynamics. The thoughtful comments posted by this wonderful Gransnet community are so helpful.
If I could persuade my daughter that I admire her for juggling family and a demanding job so well, I think that would help, but however often I tell her this, I don't think she believes me.

Mutti From your latest post it appears to me that Nanny just wants to run things her way. She sees her job as looking after the kids on her terms. She obviously doesn't want you cramping her style and makes no effort to get on with you. Your daughter wants to run things her way and she will find it a pain to find another Nanny. You need to put forward your point of view to your daughter, state every single problem you experience with the Nanny. She won't like it, but you don't like the way you are being treated by a paid help. Your daughter needs to get tougher with the Nanny. If they are so skilled in employment or business, how is this such a problem for your daughter and son in law to resolve? It seems they do not wish to lose the nanny and would prefer to lose you. Other Grandma already lost and you should point this out to them. I feel sorry for the little grandchildren caught up in this mess. Doesn't the Nanny have an agency or something ? Daughter just has to tell Nanny that she must work with you on this and if she can't she must look elsewhere for work. Your daughter can't be telling her this.

Further more, you don't want to end up being your daughter's unpaid skivvy. My husband didn't like me saying that I wasn't going to have his daughter getting me to walk her dog for nothing when she bought a puppy yet out at work allday, but I still said it.

It's no wonder you can't find anything on the internet about this, as the situation created here is so absurd !!!! It doesn't help that your daughter "pussyfoots" around the subject and won't deal properly with her employee.

You are right that there is nothing on the internet about how to deal with overbearing nannies. I googled exactly that and found a whole load of articles for nannies on how to deal with overbearing parents - and grandparents! Maybe she has "been on a course" on the subject and is now applying the material in practice on you and the other granny.

If you are quite sure that you yourself are being reasonable in the amount of time you would like with your grandchildren, then your daughter and her husband are the ones to ask to organise it, and to make certain that you are not completely squeezed out of their lives. It'll take tact, both on your part discussing it with them and on their part arranging it with the nanny - and checking that the arrangements are being kept to. When you employ someone, you do have to keep an eye on whether they are actually doing what was agreed. This woman appears to be moving the goalposts on her own initiative.

www.4nannies.com/blog/50-tips-for-starting-your-nanny-relationship-off-right/

Please look at the above blog. It looks really good - see "weekly touch base meetings" for instance. If your daughter is such a whizz in business, this would be something she is used to. She should not be letting the Nanny do exactly as she pleases - easy to do, but should not be happening. Boundaries need to be set for everyone's benefit, daughters, Nanny's, yours, and most importantly the grandchildrens. Nanny needs to know exactly how far her job description extends. If no boundaries are set by anyone, then that's why you've ended up in such a pickle.

If you are going to raise this with your DD I would suggest you wait until after Christmas. Stand back over the next few weeks, scale back the visits and see if anyone comments. Either the Chidren or the parents.

Choosing your moment is vital here. The lead up to Christmas will be a very busy time for the parents. Shopping, entertaining, school events will all need to be juggled. Choose the wrong moment and you might unleash a tsunami or, worse still, end up on the strangled parents thread.

It is all very well for others to say what your DD should do, they may well be right. getting her onside to actually change or tackle the Nanny is another matter. Be the bigger person for now, give everyone breathing space and you will be in a much better position.

Freudian slip with strangled parents I meant ofcourse, estranged parents.

I like strangled parents

Where's jingl when you need her? A psycho nanny would be right up her street