My son might be emigrating!

Tragic for her parents eh Jalima!

a friend was coming back from Australia recently and she said it was noticeable that the plane was full of exhausted looking grandparents who had been visiting expat family We're exhausted because we have been so busy for several weeks enjoying ourselves! And the journey is not the best part of the trip, but at least more achievable these days.
When an aunt went to Australia in the 1930s that was it - until the late 1960s which was the first time she came back to the UK for a visit.

GG
There were three aspects to your post including the personal, that one of your sons is an emigrant , and I am very sorry you considered my post patronising as I genuinely feel for the pain of you or any parent in that situation, especially when the country is far away. It must be dreadful.

However I disagree strongly with your view that having another child or more remaining in one's country doesnt provide some relief of the pain, as Azie's comment above supports. Of course you cannot replace the distant child but others and their children can help to fill the empty space left by their departure. I cannot believe you wouldnt find it harder still if your other son was also to emigrate?

On your historical point however of migration in the past no I would not be 'surprised at how often it happened' (far rarer than today is the answer). Youre being rather 'patronsing' yourself here.
The word 'often' is abstract and relative, and maybe you at some point learned about migration in the past and were surprised to find it more frequent than you had thought, but that is not my perspective. I have been aware that it occurs as long as I can remember and also aware that it was never anything like it is now!
Think about it GG, if it has been widespread then global culture and languages would have become far more widespread far sooner and national and local cultures languages and dialects lost. In fact after the initial 'peopling of the world' the vast majority pretty much stayed put until the age of exploration and the colonisation of the new world, and then the repeopling of that from Europe took place but it was still very much a minority activity (with some exceptions of forced migration such as the potato famine and pogroms).

Incidentally nor did I say I am not interested in my family history, I did say I am not especially interested in the experiences of my two distant cousins who went to Australia after WW2. I am very interested in family history, though more the earlier stuff than post WW2.

Mair I am so pleased to see you approve of my feelings on the matter - of course I need you to tell me this [don't want to be patronised thank-you]

You seem to feel that twisting what I said makes a discussion point. I did not write, say or in anyway suggest that " migration isn't far more prevalent than in the past". I did suggest that you might be surprised just how often it happened and, as you have already declared you are not interested in your family history - you might. Please don't conflate what you read with what I actually write and then feel you have leave to reprimand me. When you read things actually written I might think you have some right to forward a contra argument but I will still not feel that reprimanding other posters is either polite of necessary.

I really don't think that admitting your sadness and pain is negative. If you don't admit to those feelings, they don't go away, they just fester. And I guess we're all different but for me, one finger typed messages randomly received and TV like interactions once every few weeks are not really contact, they're superficial.

Mair a friend was coming back from Australia recently and she said it was noticeable that the plane was full of exhausted looking grandparents who had been visiting expat family. It's very hard. Of course we all get on with it. I'm seeing a lot more of my older daughter who clearly wants to be closer now and we're giving ourselves lots of little treats but it only helps the pain a little. I'm so glad I have another child.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so negative. It is one of those things many of us cope with. we can keep in touch so much better than in the past, we have a whatsapp family group, and share little messages and pics between UK and oz, a great idea and free.

My son is about to return to Australia after a long visit here. It has been wonderful just seeing him everyday, just us two often, getting to know him again. I'd only seen him once in last 8 years. Because of money, I think when he goes off next week I may never see him again... It is a very hard thing to cope with. He is not the greatest at keeping in touch, nor is other son in UK. I just have to accept they are getting on with their lives as they chose... They will never know how sad and bereft I feel, I will just get on with my life as best I can, and be happy for them. That's what mums do.

I think, perhaps, the world is as small - or distant - as we choose to make it

While positivity can help, a desire to travel cannot overcome the limitations imposed by poverty or poor health GG, nor for many does technology provide total compensation for the loss of actual RL contact, but its great that you find it satisfactory.

But to suggest migration isn't far more prevalent than in the past is just wilful denial of reality. And when it happened in the past it caused great pain too. Recently I was reading a book which said how in the eighteenth century many mothers did not wish to live in seaport towns and moved away lest their sons might be tempted to run away to sea!

Just ordered it Jalima!

Mair I don't think one child being here has ever replaced another - that seems such a strange way to look at the individuals we watch grow to adulthood and bravely make their life decisions.

Technology makes a huge difference. My son rang me (hands free) from his phone yesterday evening as he went to collect bathroom fittings. My daughter had rung me earlier (also hands free) on her phone on the way home from work. One lives a few miles away and the other halfway round the world but the chat was just the same.

"The idea it has happened for hundreds of years', but used to be very rare."

Perhaps not a rare as you might think as, particularly in farming families. Sons were sent abroad often as land was cheap in the 'colonies'. I think it also worth remembering that not all families were very large and although the parent might miss children in another country they lost many more than we can contemplate to death. Even in my own mother's case, and she was born as late as 1920, she bore six children and lost four. I live here but my brother lives in America and she has a very positive attitude to that - even traveling out to visit him well into her 80s. She also travelled to Australia to my son's wedding when she was 86. I think, perhaps, the world is as small - or distant - as we choose to make it

Mair have you read the book 'Ship of Brides' by Jojo Moyes? It's about British girls who marry Aussie servicemen and go out there after the war.

No but thanks for the suggestion. I think my mum would love it. I personally have only limited interest in these first cousins once removed who I never met.

Yes Jalima I am sure we are all aware of that, it doesn't alter my earlier point.

It's not always a lot easier to visit family in the US. My DS is on west coast USA and direct flights are impossible. It's a two stop or three stop journey one of which was 11 hours last time. The total journey was 23 hours.

There are millions of Eastern Europeans all over the globe, many of them and their descendants in Australia too.
There was a huge exodus after 1945

Where are yours Jalima?

the other day I realised they were disappearing from my consciousness rather like a bereavement, which I suppose it is.
Mine are always there in my mind with me even though they are thousands of miles away.

DD and I just had a nice long chat (an hour) and we probably see as much of them as if they lived a few hundred miles away in the UK. Also had a shorter chat with DGS as he's not the world's greatest conversationalist but he said he loved me!

I find I suddenly really miss my twins as I'm about to sleep (so then I don't!) and then the other day I realised they were disappearing from my consciousness rather like a bereavement, which I suppose it is.

And probably the best way of healing the loss, sad as that sounds. .

And this is happening all over the world now on a vast scale, grandparents left behind while their ACs take their darling GCs elsewhere, left to the cold contact of technology to track their changing lives from a distance. How many grandparents in Eastern Europe must be secretly hoping their children will return, while smiling to the neighbors and boasting of their success in Britain?
Some GPs even have to face the misery of non communication with the GCs as the mother tongue is lost.

Having watched the latest Channel 5 programme about families emigrating to Australia, it seems to me that it's a continuation of the current way of living - life as one long holiday full of beaches and swimming with dolphins!
I don't think the reality is at all like that!

Mair have you read the book 'Ship of Brides' by Jojo Moyes? It's about British girls who marry Aussie servicemen and go out there after the war.

Mair I do so agree with your last sentence about flying becoming more expensive and thus prohibitive and with nanasam about the distance Down Under feeling just too much. We're girding loins for New Zealand, which we both in all honesty have no desire to see. I can probably cope with the flight but I've had a real phobia about flying in the past which hypnotherapy helped a lot. However I honestly don't feel I can go more than once. I can imagine flying to the States more often, I think.

I find I suddenly really miss my twins as I'm about to sleep (so then I don't!) and then the other day I realised they were disappearing from my consciousness rather like a bereavement, which I suppose it is. It feels very destructive however wonderful life is in Oz/NZ. You can tell yourself congratulatory stories such as you having made them wonderfully independent so they can go off and leave you to Skype but if that's the deal, well I wish I'd stayed in my job and pursued the career I wanted instead of making time for them and providing a warm, loving home with an attentive parent. In the past, those who emigrated often did so because life at home was dire with no prospects. Having watched the latest Channel 5 programme about families emigrating to Australia, it seems to me that it's a continuation of the current way of living - life as one long holiday full of beaches and swimming with dolphins!

Indeed Nana, the USA is as nothing compared to Australia!

My mothers older cousins, both sisters married Ozzie servicemen they met during the war. My great aunt must have found it an unbearable heartache. She and her DH made one 'once in lifetime' trip paid for by the richer of the two daughters. That daughter did a couple of trips home too but the other couldn't afford it. They did have one DS left in the UK, but I doubt that compensated and the DIL wasnt, from what I heard, the easiest.

I think as oil becomes scarcer and flying becomes more of a luxury again, the world will see a substantial rise in older people cut off from the children and GCs they love.

I would love for my son to be living in the US - he left for Australia 12 years ago, we've been to see him 3 times but it's just too far and I don't think I'll be going again. However, if he was in the US I would be able to see him far more often - 8 hours flying is so much easier than 23! He works in the IT industry so we're keeping our fingers crossed he's headhunted by Microsoft or similar!

If I am being honest, it would break my heart SeventhHeaven if my DS and DDiL and the DGC decided to move to America (or anywhere else out of the country for that matter) as short of some kind of minor miracle we would almost definitely never see them again. Unless they were able to come back here and visit. I am sure you already know how lucky you are being able to flit off to America every year janeainsworth many of us would never be-able to do that.

I am glad my DS and DDiL are both home birds and live only a few miles along the coast from me.

Thank you Mair.

I am pleased for you Jane, that at least for now you can enjoy some benefit despite the pain of your DS being far away.

It's ok Mair I'm not elderly and DH and I are having the time of our lives, enjoying every minute of our retirement. We are are staying with DS and his family st the moment.
I'm well aware that this won't last and decrepitude and/or illness will catch up with us in the end.
But I think we'll cope, as do all the other GNers do, who already have these problems to live with. I still wouldn't want my DCs to feel
burdened.