Vegans?

These must be rather insensitive people that you are mixing and eating with Faye I am a meat eater, but family and wider circle around me are meat eaters and vegetarians, and nobody would dream of commenting ( either way) it's the height of bad manners.

roses I actually had someone last night trying to tell me how the sheep he was eating was slaughtered. It's not funny, I didn't want to hear about it, why should I, I don't eat it. I don't comment on people's meals. If you dont eat meat how do you know what other meat eaters are saying in 2017. It's a lot better than 50 years ago, that might be because I won't put up with what I did when I was much younger.

This thread was started by Phoenix why has she not commented since?

I don't know if this point has been mentioned (haven't read the whole thread.)
As some people will know there are currently restrictions about raising poultry in most of Europe, because of bird flu. There's a strong possibility that the current virus could mutate into one that could infect humans - through eating the meat.
I'm expecting the price of chicken meat to go up (might be wrong) if only meat from unaffected areas is allowed to be sold.
We're not vegetarian yet, but may be in the future.

Yes Felice as with any human behaviour, things can and often do go too far, but often common sense wins out.What a very silly restaurant that is.

I actually love being asked to cater for vegans and vegetarians, finding new recipes and ingredients.

On another note I read an article this morning about a vegan restaurant in Italy which has banned bottle fed babies if the milk is cow/sheep or goat.
Is this a step too far?
You could take it even further and ban milk which had been expressed, as that has been extracted from a human.
Can things be taken too far?????

Faye you are loading all the old insults you got when young onto today's climate of feeling around vegetarianism and veganism.That doesn't exist today, many people choose that food and many food outlets and shops cater to it.
It must work both ways, because for those of us who choose to eat meat, we are fine with their choice but don't want their lectures on what we do!
Sometimes ( not always) converts to a vegetarian way seek to evangelise.

Not sure I agree with you there Elegran, meat eaters can be very superior, thinking they know it all and they don't hold back. When I became a vegetarian at age fourteen in 1966 I did not know one vegetarian. Can you imagine the put downs I have endure for the last 50 years, especially in the beginning and at the age I was then. I have been called crazy, questioned on where I get my protein from, that one annoys me more than anything. Told how weak people feel when they don't eat meat. People still tell stories about a teenage relative deciding to become vegetarian or vegan and there is much hand wringing by the adults worried they won't get enough protein. It seems so silly when a plant based diet is a healthy diet.

You posted that durhamjen was hectoring and disaproving Espee. I can not see where she is hectoring and disaproving. You did what you are accusing her of by saying she is hectoring and disaproving.

You don't convert people to your ideas by abusing their choices.

My post on www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1235771-The-art-of-persuasion could be applied to the air of superior disapproval shown by some (repeat some) vegetarians and vegans to those who eat meat.

Faye, I have not been aggressive, hectoring nor disapproving on this thread and suggest you apologise. I couldn't care less what anybody eats and I cater for lifestyle choices and would never dream of inviting a guest and expect them to cater for themselves. I will say that I have found Durhamjen's responses aimed at me highly aggressive and reminiscent of playground arguments. So the pair of you are presenting an aggressive example of the attitude of vegans.......which provides confirmation of my original vegan joke - How do you know who's a vegan?

Durhamjen, can I assume that your question at 23:34 yesterday is directed at me? You ask for evidence so I suggest that you read up about the Wonderwerk site which is dated to 1 million years ago (Lower Pleistocene). The Xihoudu site at 1.4 million years ago is very much older and has burnt bone but, if I remember correctly no evidence of butchering on those fragments so evidence of cooking inconclusive. My knowledge on this subject is out of date so there may well be earlier sites. Your stated 400,000years was around the date I remembered for this country but you have to remember that the UK was covered in ice before that.
Lovely that you are showing an interest in archaeology, a hobby of mine, but don't try to use it as an explanation for your food choices. We are animals and have evolved through time. All our major advances as a species have been diet related with the availability of meat being the most important one.

Personally I think the OP has a cheek to 'have a struggle' with vegans. It's not up to her to question those who choose not to eat meat or other animal products - and I speak as a meat-eater.

Iam and Espee it was a meat eater that was the OP. I can't see where durhamjen been been hectoring, disaproving and aggressive. Pot calling the kettle black.

Can you show me the evidence?

Just read today that people who voted to remain are much happier than those who voted to leave.
I am quite happy as I am thank you.
Do you not realise how aggressive the majority are on here?
Including you?

Durhamjen, Just re-read your post at 8:39 yesterday clearly directed at me and wish to point out firstly that there is evidence of our ancestors using fire a million years ago in Africa and Asia. Your argument seems to be that because our ancestors have only been able to cook meat for whatever length of time then it is natural for mankind to eat meat raw.
Well walking is the natural way of getting from A to B but we have progressed and now most of us use planes, boats trains etc. It is called progress.
You eat what suits you, just leave the rest of us to eat what suits us and stop preaching. Frankly if a vegan diet makes everyone as aggressive as you then I am so glad you are in a minority.

It is very complex. I'd happily go without the flowers and happily contribute towards alternative economies.

We need to be prepared to go without stuff, demand industries put back into local economies as well as providing employment. It is v complex.

That last sentence is untrue on both counts, as well as being inaccurate. I do care and I don't 'attack' you on 'anything'. My point is that the economics of 3rd world countries are complex. On a simple level, I struggle with the issue of whether or not I buy flowers that are flown in from African countries. If I don't buy, how do those people live?

How does stating my view become hectoring and disapproving?

That is one of the reasons I became vegetarian over forty years ago, and am now vegan.

Those who are hungry are not normally the ones who sell the food. It's normally their governments, who do not share the profits.

I support Actionaid, and they give animals and teach fishing where necessary. I'm not all bad, you know.

www.actionaid.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/food-hunger-and-sustainable-livelihoods

Not that you care, anything to attack me on.

I agree cherry tree and thank my blessings.

"They" may not think beyond making money by growing the grain to feed the animals etc durhamjen. I'm not a million miles from your views on this but forgive me if I say, your hectoring, disapproving tone is somewhat alienating.

They would have more food to eat if we didn't use their land to grow grain to feed the animals the Western world eats.

Cherry thought it was going to be a little poem.

Please Ignore first line ( have brain fog today)

We are all very lucky to

How lucky we all are,
that we are able to make such a lifestyle choice
Some unfortunate people have to live with a hand to mouth existence.
Not knowing when/where or what their next meal will be!

It would help a great deal if
-we wasted less food,
-ate less generally, but especially red meat
-demanded good, more natural husbandry and not mega-farming

It will not appease vegetarians or vegans but it would be healthier and better environmentally for everyone.