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(243 Posts)
phoenix Thu 30-Mar-17 23:42:07

Hello all, first if this has already been covered, I apologise, and would appreciate a point in the direction of any relevant threads.

However, whilst I can have some understanding of those who choose to be vegetarian, I have a bit of struggle with people who adopt a vegan lifestyle (actually, not very keen on the word "lifestyle", always seems a bit Sunday supplement?) especially if they are doing it because of "love of animals".

I love animals, and want those that I eat to have had a good life and a humane death. (I used to keep a 50 head flock of sheep, and they and their lambs were treated very well)

If we all adopted a totally vegan approach to food, clothes, home fabrics etc, surely many of our domestic farm animals would become of no use, and possibly endangered species!

And as for vegans objecting to the content of animal product in the new notes becoming part of our currency, what should we do?

Palm oil has been suggested, but apparently that isn't an environmentally good option.

Shall we go back to trading in beans? But what if they have been grown in land fertilised by animal manure?

Where does it actually reach a sort of semi sensible conclusion?

durhamjen Thu 30-Mar-17 23:49:28

The sensible conclusion is to accept what other people think.

durhamjen Thu 30-Mar-17 23:50:21

The sensible conclusion is to accept what other people think.
Where did this come from?

durhamjen Thu 30-Mar-17 23:50:22

The sensible conclusion is to accept what other people think.
Where did this come from?

phoenix Thu 30-Mar-17 23:56:55


phoenix Fri 31-Mar-17 00:05:43

Actually, durhamjen you say "the sensible conclusion is to accept what other people think" , I find that a bit alarming!

Surely you don't apply that to everything?

durhamjen Fri 31-Mar-17 00:06:36

Good heavens! How did that happen?
Worth repeating?

durhamjen Fri 31-Mar-17 00:14:17

I apply it to their choice of being vegetarian or vegan. I have both in my family, and have been vegetarian for over forty years. The vegetarian side of the family are now trying veganism, although not throwing away the dairy we have in the house already, just not buying any more.

By the way, I also eat organic food where possible, which gets over the palm oil problem.
Most domestic farm animals are not bred naturally, artificial insemination just for the meat. Even the red tractor group have admitted it's just a marketing ploy.

durhamjen Fri 31-Mar-17 00:17:16

I have also always had a vegan approach to household objects and clothes, wearing cotton and linen, and vegan shoes - which probably explains why I do not have many clothes and shoes, because they are always quite expensive, although they last well.

phoenix Fri 31-Mar-17 00:44:22

Sorry, I beg to differ re domestic farm animals and AI, several neighbours are up to their elbows currently as it's peak lambing time around here, and all of the ewes were impregnated in the traditional way, in other words, put the ram in with them!

AI. Will be sometimes used for selective breeding, when perhaps a particular breed of bull would be appropriate for the cow or heifer.

It is not always practical (or in the animals best interest) to bring the bull in, so then straws (as they are called) of tested semen are used.

I will grant you that this method does mean that it does open the door for less than ideal matches between breeds, with the problems that can bring,but apparently that is due to what the "housewife" demands!

Nannarose Fri 31-Mar-17 07:27:16

Our extended family, since I was a child, has always included people who have made careful decisions about various aspects of their lives, from vegetarianism and buying at the Co-op, Fair Trade and ethical tourism to vegetarians and all sorts of boycotts.
I follow my parents' example, respecting people's decisions even if they don't chime with mine, and appreciating the reasons behind it. I accommodate as best I can - fortunately I enjoy cooking so happy to offer a range of food, and enjoy such left-overs that aren't happily taken away!
My own bugbear about vegans is that so much stuff is imported and soya does not seem very good to grow or eat in large quantities. DH and I try to use locally grown food as much as possible (but drink is another story!)

Anya Fri 31-Mar-17 07:36:54

I have no problems with anybody choosing not to eat animals or wear animal products providing they also accept my own dietary ways. As it happens I do eat some meat and fish but the meat always has to be free range and, preferably, organically fed.

However I have a good range of recipes that I can, and do, drum up for vegetarian friends and that we can all share as a meal. Vegan I find harder to cater for, but there's always the internet.

Christinefrance Fri 31-Mar-17 08:16:47

I have no problem with other people's dietary choices, what I do object to is their imposition of this on the rest of us. We cannot cater (no pun intended ) for all minority groups who have problems with every day items. Reality check folks.

Norah Fri 31-Mar-17 08:34:22

Vegan is just one of the many ways people eat, no effect to me. People also choose all organic, again no effect to me if I don't wish to eat all organic. I find it all healthy.

Gagagran Fri 31-Mar-17 09:24:14

My DGD aged 15 has been a self-proclaimed vegan for 18 months but it doesn't stop her getting her lift supplying Grandad to stop at the Co-op on her way back from school to buy a bag of "vegan" doughnuts which she then scoffs!

durhamjen Fri 31-Mar-17 09:25:14

The point about being vegan is not that you don't eat or use animal products, but that you don't buy them. As a vegetarian I would never have meat or fish in my house. Having had a vegetarian cafe and guest house, no meat or fish in my fridges or freezers. How can you say you respect people being vegan but expect them to cook meat for you? That's no respect at all.
How does it harm a meat eater to have a vegan meal occasionally?
It used to be that soya was the only non animal drink product. These days there are so many others you do not have to rely on soya all the time. I buy oatmilk and cream, produced in Sweden.
There has been lots of research debunking the problems of eating too much soya. One of the problems of soya will come to the fore very soon, when we leave the EU, and are expected to have trade deals with the US, which grows lots of GM soya.
Of course we can cater for minority groups, Christine. What you mean is you don't want to, which is completely different.
I used to have lots of women stay in my guest house who were not vegetarian or vegan, who would say that they could easily give up meat but their husbands would not.
I used to tell them to cook vegetarian meals for them, then add meat for their husbands. It works. Cook for the minority, then add. Don't blame the minority for not wanting to eat dead animals.

Teetime Fri 31-Mar-17 09:29:09

I've always rather admired vegetarians and vegans as I am sure its a healthier way of eating. I have tried vegetarianism but I harked back mostly to chicken and fish but I often choose a vegetarian option in restaurants. My friends daughter is a vegan but is terribly think and her mother finds it difficult to feed her when she is at home. I understand Bill Clinton lost his weight when he adopted a vegan diet. Food and dietary choices are highly individual and I suppose we should just be thankful that we live in a place where food is plentiful and we can make whatever choices we wish.

Christinefrance Fri 31-Mar-17 09:50:12

durhamjen - I was actually referring to non food items just to clarify.

Jayanna9040 Fri 31-Mar-17 09:50:21

Let me say first I am a meat eater so have no particular drum to bang, but the stance of dairy eating vegetarians has always puzzled me. In order to produce milk the cow must calve, you might keep the female calves to increase the herd but the male ones will have to be killed or kept for meat. So if not harming animals is your reason for being vegetarian, dairy in your diet doesn't make sense does it?

Theoddbird Fri 31-Mar-17 10:25:18

If people didn't eat meat there would be enough grain to feed the world...

W11girl Fri 31-Mar-17 10:36:17

Each to their own when it comes to choosing whether to be vegan or other. However .....the £5 note issue. We all know about alleged cocaine traces (urban myth...not sure)more or less being on all of our paper currency. I am anti-drugs but It doesn't put me off using my fivers, tenners and twenties to purchase the necessities of life. I'm sure our plastic cards are not wholly ethical to some either.....where do we draw the line?

SillyNanny321 Fri 31-Mar-17 10:40:47

I do not eat meat simply because I do not like the taste. When I was a child I used to give any meat on my plate to my dog who always sat under the table waiting for his daily treat.
I still do not like the taste of beef in any shape or form, lamb is a bit greasy for my taste & pork makes me very ill with upset stomach. So I do eat fish as my Doctor told me I should but eat a lot of Soya & Quorn products.
It is all personal choice & I do not try to persuade anyone else to eat as I do.

Solitaire Fri 31-Mar-17 11:02:21

I've been vegetarian all of my life, my family too. When pregnant and breastfeeding all of my children, midwives constantly harassed me to eat meat/fish.
My sons are well over 6 feet tall and have never needed to see our GP apart from private medicals for work or rugby injuries.
What I have real dilemma about is that we have Halal abbatoirs in this country where animals have been Ill treated. I was very distressed by a documentary on the subject, which I had to turn off.

Dharmacat Fri 31-Mar-17 11:02:35

Sorry, durhamjen, gave a wry smile at your comment "How can you say you respect people being vegan but expect them to cook meat for you? That is no respect at all."
How does this equate with you expecting guests to eat vegan/vegetarian meals with you? I accept that if I choose to visit a vegan cafe/ guest house then that is how I expect to eat but that is not the same as dining in a social setting in other peoples' homes.
However, if any of our vegetarian friends (two sets) come for a meal they expect us to provide a vegetarian option (which I gladly do), but they would not dream of serving us with a meat option in their homes - where is their respect for us?
Seriously, I do understand your views and I eat only chicken and fish, not a vegetarian, but cook mainly vegetarian dishes.

paddyann Fri 31-Mar-17 11:37:52

I was vegetarian for around 15 years ,now I eat a small amount of meat ,but never pork or fowl ,even when I was vegetarian I would cook meat for my family and friends .Its MY choice to not eat meat I wouldn't dream of asking others to follow my choices.My lovely neice is vegan has been for 30 odd years BUT she'll poach chicken for her CAT go figure that !