Property inheritance

Tbh we will probably leave it to the social services. It is the youngest brother who will lose as he has done the most for his mum and will carry on doing despite middle brother's behaviour. So week we will see . Might tell him to go to cab. Thanks for replies .

But if she legally transferred the house to her middle son ten years ago, it's beyond the 7 year limit and she won't be liable for care home fees anyway.

The only reason I would suggest reading some of the AC's fact sheets is that ss vary in their interpretation of the rules/guidance and this would give you some idea. One awful scenario is that ss are liberal with their interpretation and decide not to count the house as her asset. In that case the shortfall in the fees between her pension and what the la will pay will be funded. But if she had the money from her house, she could perhaps have a much nicer care home for her last few months/years. It would seem beyond wrong that mb has the house and your mil as ax result has less or no choice in the home she finishes her life in.

Thanks all for advice. As social services are now involved, think we will probably wait and see what comes from that. My husband is very philosophical about it all but the younger brother is hurt, i know, despite his middle brother's actions, he loves his mum and will always take care of her as he has always done. He will have clear conscience for life but it's hard watching him getting up in early hours when she needs him and now staying overnight when she needs it, as i said she now really needs full time care. He has done it all and the middle brother has split the family with his actions.

Looking at it from the outside, I think you have every right to be upset, baffled and perhaps a little angry, if not on your DH behalf, certainly on behalf of the brother who is doing all the caring and has given up paid employment to do so. My initial suspicions are that the middle brother, who seems to do very little to help their Mother, has taken steps to look after himself only. I am no expert on the matter, and I am sure others can advise, but I suspect that SS will be looking into this situation when it comes to paying care fees; it is (rightly) very difficult to avoid paying fees simply by willing your property to a family member. I don't think you are being unreasonable or getting on your high horse,and looking at it another way; why should I, or anyone else on here, pay care home fees for your MiL in order for your BiL to inherit the entire property? Take the good advice given on here, go and speak to someone at Age Concern, you will not be the first with this type of problem, I am sure!

Won't Social Services have access to deed data? If not, why not?

sorry, first sentence should have read 'signing the deeds over to him' not leaving him the house.

I would not accept it gracefully if the brother who is doing none of the looking after has somehow coerced his mother into leaving him the house.

Now that social services will be involved they will want to know about her assets and ownership of the house and perhaps whether there was a degree of coercion involved.
What was in the father's will - did he leave everything to his widow or did he specify that it was to be in trust for his sons with his widow to receive a life-time benefit?

Unfortunately, if nothing can be done because it was legally correct if not morally, then it might be best to put it behind you and not think about it as it could make the brothers very bitter.

From what you now say if it were only to be one brother who had the house it should be the youngest one! I think that steps do need to be taken now to ascertain what the situation is - if MIL goes into a home it will need to be paid for. I would say you should get advice - CAB or a solicitor as they often give a half hour free and a lot can be done in that time. They will know exactly where to go to get the information. If MIL made a will using a solicitor they often keep a copy of the will which could be useful. If there is an agreement with middle son it would need to be signed and witnessed etc and the solicitor might be able to sort that too. You need to know the facts before any nursing home comes into play.

If SSD consider that this lady has deliberately sought to transfer property to her son for the purpose of avoiding care home payments, they can put a legal charge on it so that they can recoup the care home costs when she dies and the house is sold. There has to be some very persuasive reason for the transfer to the son for them to ignore the value of her home.

It's Age Concern Fact Sheet 40.

Even if it was only £5000 I would not be able to " let it go".
It sounds underhand and unfair and if coercion was involved,illegal. Get legal advice on a free initial basis.

I imagine Social Services will have advise and rules. I believe they could sort the deed rather quickly as they certainly have access to the data.

I certainly don't believe you to be on a high horse, not at all.

OP - AgeConcern might help you with what now appears to be another problem. Will ss treat her as still owning the house as she has continued to live in it? If so, then she won't get help with fees. I've no idea in these circumstances what middle brother could be forced to do if he legally owns it. It's a horrible situation for your dh and yb. Please try and get some advice from a trusted source -like AC - you can access their fact sheets on line.

janeainsworth I was trying to point out that mil is still alive. Her will matters not in the moment. Sorting the whys a woman, now with dementia, deeded her home is impossible.

I'm not there. I hope I would look to the relationships, accept the disposition gracefully.

Hi all thanks for replies. We found out last year about this by a careless comment by another relative who didn't realise what had happened and led us to ask the question of middle brother. We never took any action as we didn't really know what we could do if anything, so we let it go until now. Norah - Their mum is still alive but old and ill and is ready to go into care, social services are just getting involved and this is what's brought the whole thing to a head , the middle brother let drop a comment about renting the house out The fact the middle brother has got the will locked away and wouldn't show us got us thinking.
Tbh the house isn't worth enough to be affected by inheritance tax, it's value is possible about 130000 based on similar in area. We've not really looked into it. Not that this is really the point but my husband did look after his mum for years when she had facial cancer 15 years ago. Their mum is now being looked after full time by the youngest brother who gave up his job to do so and he is golden to her, does all her meals, shopping, cleans her up when she has "accidents" . Even though he has his own family, he lives in next street and has done a lot over the years. The middle brother works, has his own house and lives in Dorset. Has never been involved in looking after his mum at all. He has petrol money off his mum when he visits and pleads poverty generally. Didn't really want to get into all this as some posters can be really judgemental, but i say this now just to give some context.
Btw it may be that we can't do anything and ok that might be the case, but just asking for opinions, gransnet has such a lot of people to know things and no one we have asked in the family has any idea if we could do anything, as i said it was 10 years ago. Could really do without comments like those from Aggie, we are not on high horse, just trying to establish if anyone thought we should get advice and if so best place to start

norah I think it matters because most people assume that their parents will be fair and equitable in distributing their assets to their children, notwithstanding the parents' right to spend their money as they please.
If a property has been given to one sibling and especially if the gift has been concealed from the other siblings, that must raise questions about whether there was any coercion, and even if the gift was freely given, the siblings could justifiably feel hurt and upset that they had not received the same consideration as the one who had benefited from the parent's generosity.
It's rather different from the money just being given to charity and none of the children benefitting.

Quite, especially as MIL had apparently originally split her estate between the three sons.

I think ana's advice should be your first step to find out if anything really has been done that is legally binding. It would be best to do this before spending money on legal advice. If it has, then as others have said, if she was of sound mind, that's it. Is the house worth a lot? As she has continued living in it, it will still count for inheritance tax purposes. I have to admit that in this situation, unless middle brother was doing all the caring, I would be miffed. I know it's hers to do with as she wishes but that's easier said than accepted I would think. I've not been in that position I have to say though. I don't think that's getting on a high horse, just being honest

if Mum was compus mentis 10 years ago the siblings have no case and better shrug it off and climb off their high horse

Maybe I am missing something, why does any of this matter (mil is still alive)?

No it does not. They need a good Contentsious Probate Lawyer who will advise them on what to do.

You can obtain a copy of the Land Certificate from the Land registry for a fee, just to make sure whose name the property's now in an when it was transferred.

Could it be possible that it was transferred into his name to avoid paying inheritance tax? Or could they have thought that care home fees could be avoided if it was in the brother's name?

How did you find out, did the 'middle son' tell you?