Triple lock

You show me how to depersonalise it and I will, Chewbacca.

Roses does say wait and see rather a lot.
I get fed up of being told to wait and see. I don't want to wait and see, I want to try and change things.

Correction: That's an uncalled for personal snipe.

That's anot uncalled for personal snipe against another poster Durham. Roses is just as entitled to state her opinion as anybody else on these forums. We all are, even if we repeat ourselves. as do you.

It's a mantra, roses.
You say wait and see for everything, not just the manifestos. You say it so often you don't realise it.

Of course it's personal; you are the only person who says it on every political thread. Not sure how I can depersonalise that.

Gordon Brown introduced it for the reasons I have outlined - pensioner poverty - in 2006.

whitewave

I think you are mistaken , wasn't the Triple Lock brought in by the Coalition Government in 2010?

' The "triple-lock" on state pensions - which has protected the incomes of the older generation since 2010 - should be scrapped, a committee of MPs has said.

The triple-lock guarantees that pensions rise by the same as average earnings, the consumer price index, or 2.5%, whichever is the highest.

The Work and Pensions Committee said continuing with it was "unsustainable" and "unfair" on younger families.

It is possibly going to be in the Conservative Manifesto the Triple Lock may go, it may not.

The question is, is it fair for pensioners to have the triple lock, winter fuel allowance paid if they are financially comfortable. I would prefer to see those pensioners on Pension Credit for example receive more help.

Hardly a mantra durhamjen ( as ever, you make any comment personal)
Wait and see the manifesto for all the parties makes sense to me instead of wild guesses.

As the triple lock was only put in place until pensions caught up I think it's probably time to discontinue it and replace with a slightly less generous system. It doesn't seem fair on wage earners or benefit recipients. However, I think all the parties will keep it in order to chase the grey vote - and because it comes in very handy as a contribution towards care home costs. Give with one hand, take with the other.

There is a big difference between means testing the winter fuel allowance ( very expensive process) and simply adding it on to the pensioner's annual income ( far cheaper and fairer). I do agree though about the necessity of making sure that nobody, not just pensioners, should have to decide between heating and eating, and the bus pass is a lifeline for many. I think we can all assume though, whatever our political persuasion, that the triple lock is under threat as it is not being promised to the group who are surely one of the most likely to vote Tory ( apart from a few diehards on here, thank heavens!)

Theresa May might keep triple lock

Cutting the winter fuel allowance and the free bus pass might save money on the bottom line but there will be hidden costs. As DurhamJ pointed out the fuel allowance might help prevent deaths . It might help those who have to choose between eating and heating to be able to keep reasonably well nourished. Similarly the bus pass encourages and facilitates pensioners to keep active and this must have health benefits both for mobility and general well-being. Yes, it might be paid to those who don't need it but it would be expensive to means test. Also those who are better off will probably only use the bus pass occasionally whilst it could provide a lifeline for those who really need it.

TM will keep the triple lock because of the Pensioner vote. Very simple really. Why upset your big vote. It wouldn't make sense. You clobber those who will never vote for you, if good political sense.

May had two chances at PMQs to say whether she would keep the triple lock. She ducked both. She is obviously not going to.

MPs have been given over a thousand pounds pay rise this year.

"I think the triple lock should go. Over the last 10 years the state pension has increased by over £1,700 a year while average wages have fallen by over £750. I, for one, am not comfortable that we were protected from the worst of the recession while everybody else, including our children, were seeing their incomes fall."

I think you have made a mistake there, Monica.
£1700 a year means it would be over £17000 now whatever base it started at ten years ago.
I wouldn't mind that,

Theresa May's mantra, strong and stable government....
Roses' mantra, wait and see....

Interesting, GillT, about the winter fuel allowance.
However, there will be more care needed if it is taken away. Over 200 preventable elderly deaths a day, according to AgeUK because of not being able to heat our homes. Lots more elderly needing to go into care.
On the other hand, it could reduce the elderly population a lot quicker if it was taken away.

I don't think I will ever get a bus pass.

Know what you mean Gill - my most precious perk is my bus pass, dreading them taking that away from me

As I approach retirement age ( although it does keep evading me), I note that all the benefits and perks are starting to disappear. I joke to my DS that by the time I can eventually retire I will be the fuel allowance ( grim joke)

Too simplistic morethan2 and a bit unfair too. Many have chosen to pay SERPS or whatever the top up is/was called and for them to receive the same as others who have not is unfair. I do agree however that the winter fuel payment should be added to taxable income. Now that would be simple and very fair; those in need of it would pay little or no tax, those who dont really need it to keep warm will pay tax. I heard an interesting discussion today about funding for social care which is a burning issue and one of the interviewees said that the amount paid out in winter fuel allowance is comparable to the annual short fall in social care funding. Interesting statistic which I must research.

The annual £10 distributed in December should be scrapped or added on to the fuel allowance because it must cost twice as much to pay everybody such a paltry amount.

Thanks for that whitewave I think I understand it now.
Can I ask another question? Would it be better if all basic state pensions were paid at the same rate so that there was no such thing as pensions credits, free bus passes and the winter fuel allowance. Wouldn't that be cheaper to implement as well as ensuring that all pensioners were paid a living pension or is that too simplistic?

Tories get the pensioner vote (despite the efforts of a few on here) so they won't mess about with it too much, imo.

I'm glad Teresa May is not promising to keep the triple lock - any new Government needs flexibility to deal with whatever happens in the economy.
I agree with Monica - I think the triple lock is unfair - it's also arbitrary - why 2.5%?
I think we (those of us who are OAPs) should pay something for bus travel - not free everywhere - and the winter fuel allowance should be added to the state pension & therefore be taxable. Pension credit could ensure that the pensioners with the lowest income wouldn't be disadvantaged.

Not sure who it was now but I heard one of the ministers saying it would be replaced by a 'double lock' but did not explain exactly what that was.
It is a difficult one this. Some people on the old basic pension are hardly getting a fortune at all - and when the basic pension goes up does the credit part go down a bit like the benefits do if people have a wage rise? Pensions were falling behind wages at a fast rate so these guaranteed rises have given pensioners a bit of a lift. However if we continue to get inflation and the pensions do not rise in line with it we shall be back to square one in a few years.

Yes, an easy vote winnner by Corbyn to say the triple lock will stay, and the triple lock is great but I agree with you Monica in the long run.