How do the "Have Nots" get on in life?

As for holidays I remember that all the girls in my class at grammar school were so impressed when one of our number went on one of the first package holidays to Spain,Even girls from professional homes just went camping to Cornwall Devon or perhaps the Lakes.

See, being taken on a modest camping holiday in the '50s and '60s if you were from a professional home would have been an out of the world experience for the poor folk on the estate. A picnic in the park had to suffice as a day out. As for going on a plane....

It's all relative, isn't it?

If you came from a poor background all you had was the charity of the local factories organising a day out at Whipsnade zoo for the workers' children, and you felt blessed.

Today they'd have had appeals and crowd funding for us!

Is poverty as abject today? It is all relative. Lots of working families cannot afford to take the kids on holiday. I think most wealth today is obscene however. The gap has widened and there seem to be no brakes to press.

Yes there was grinding poverty but unlike today the affluence of others wasn't pushed in the faces of poor people as it is today.

I agree gormenghast but we are only really aware (and envious?) of that affluence today because of advances in reporting. Technology and social media highlight the great divides between the rich, poor and the majority who just tick over from cradle to grave.

No one reported on my eating bread and dripping with holes in my hand-me-down cardigan back in the early '60s.

I wasn't aware people had cars and went on holidays because on our estate no one did. We all were destined for the comp because that's what our progressive Labour council deemed best for us. Grammar schools didn't enter our radar.

It's as I said before, keeping up with the Joneses was what it was all about back then and the Joneses had bread and jam, not dripping.

We all see a better life for ourselves today as we peer at our screens and see how obscenely rich some people are. We do the Lottery. My Dad did the Pools.

Those who go without remain. Sad but true.

I'd like someone to suggest how we fix that?

There's a twitter storm on now about the government's failings.
Hashtag #no confidence.

That's true. There are so few jobs with a lot of competition and most are low paid, part-time, temporary and zero hours contracts. It's seen as shameful now and there's pressure to be successful. If somebody isn't through no fault of their own, they're regarded as a failure.

Well said Welsh wife.I think anyone who thinks life on benefits is easy should either volunteer in a homeless shelter or a food bank and hear people's stories as to what has brought them so low.Yes there'll always be the odd person taking advantage, the ones which rags like the Daily Mail use to demonise everyone who claims benefits, but mainly people who access these facilities are desperate.Then added to the stigma associated with being poor they are faced with such conspicuous consumption all around them that they must feel like such abject failures,I was born in the late forties in a fairly affluent family, but everyone lived much simpler lives.Highlights were youth clubs and when we were older going to the once fortnightly dance in the town hall, These cost very little and were attended by a very wide spectrum of society. As for holidays I remember that all the girls in my class at grammar school were so impressed when one of our number went on one of the first package holidays to Spain,Even girls from professional homes just went camping to Cornwall Devon or perhaps the Lakes.Everything was simple and not at all materialistic. Yes there was grinding poverty but unlike today the affluence of others wasn't pushed in the faces of poor people as it is today.

Good point. It is a shame that those who've worked in low paid jobs and saved get punished when they're just above the limit, there's less and less incentive.

If you are just over the Pension Guarantee level Smithy you may be able to get the Pension Savings Credit as it takes (very) small private pensions into account. If you are at that level you should also get some help with your Council Tax, rent and possibly the National Health Low Income Scheme. There is also - not a benefit but run by the companies - the Warm Home discount which could credit your electricity account with £140.

All worth looking at if for those who have an income that is very little above the point where much happens automatically and a small amount of savings.

I retired from the civil service almost 9 years ago and I believe I was told that basing the pension on the previous 3 years could be an advantage if you'd worked overtime as it would be included, and any way wage rises were negligible at that time anyway so there wouldn't have been much difference in the salary. I was only an Admin Officer (just one grade higher than the lowest) and had only 18 years so my pension was small but just enough to prevent me getting pension credit There is still a persisting belief that all civil servants retire with a fantastic pension. As has been said its even worse nowadays than it was then.

Oh no Jalima, that's even worse. It's just as well your outgoings reduce as so has your income.

However - I am not complaining and saying I am a 'Have Not' as we don't have as many outgoings now as we had for years.

It is not based on final salary either stayanotherday - which I found when I retired. It was an average of the previous three years pay.

Sorry, just to clarify I'm mid forties and have only 14 years service.

I've worked all my life in other very low paid jobs where I couldn't afford a private pension before joining the Civil Service. I applied for lots of better paid jobs/Government jobs for many years to better myself but it was years before I was successful.

They've raised the Civil Service pension age to claim it to 67. That's now. They're talking about and no doubt going to keep raising it to the point where nobody will live long enough to claim it imo. The amount is almost worthless anyway. The state pension's going the same way.

Jalima is right, you would have needed 40 years service and at a high level to have had a decent pension. It was much better years ago until they changed the rules. It's even worse for new recruits. Hardly an incentive!

It is all too easy for our generation to ignore real poverty because younger folk spend what money they have in different ways.

We live in a nice house but we don't have smartphones and never buy takeaways.

Does that make us more virtuous or diserving than those youngsters with their gizmos and spendthrift habits? Probably not. We just have different priorities.

I didn't know you could pay it back!

I think that is so true gillybob - how many of the people we read about who are having to go to foodbanks etc are mothers who have been left to cope on their own?

I completely agree with you about being in the right place/job st the right time and the luck involved Granny23 it also helps a bit if you are married or in a steady relationship with a partner with a good job.

Jalima - my sister did get her gratuity when she left to have her first baby but she paid it back when she returned to work after 3 or 4 years ( I did the childminding of her 2 along with my own 2) and was reinstated into the pension scheme. Having started work as a CO at 17 she did almost complete 40 years and as she was rapidly promoted spent most of those years as an HEO.

Your comments illustrate my point that there is a lot of luck involved - being in the right place/job at the right time- in determining the financial outcome of your endeavours.

The freezing of one pension scheme and transfer or starting on another is common in all the places that had such extremely good pensions these days Jalima. Sadly some people never had such good pensions but there was a short period where government employees pensions were setting the way for others. It didn't last very long sadly.

my widowed sister has a huge civil service pension
Anyone with a huge civil service pension must have worked in a top job for the full 40 years - most female civil service pensioners get miniscule pensions as, in the 1960s and 1970s, many left to bring up families - their pension contributions were returned to them as a 'gratuity' and they had to start again when they returned to work (probably on a much lower grade than before too).

They also changed the Classic Civil Service Pension scheme some time ago and newer members will not get such a good deal and will have to work for longer.

State pension age for me is now 67.5 ( so far) but I will be very surprised if that doesn't rise again.

I don't understand it MawBroon. If Stay has been working all those years she will get a state pension of some sort at some point and she says she has a Civil Service pension. It's a puzzle. I think we are missing some detail.

I understood State Pension age for women was reverting to 60/65(?)

and won't get a pension

Not sure what you are saying here Stay as you say you will get a Civil Service Pension. Do you mean you wont get a State Pension?

That's true welshwife. I'm a civil servant who has a pension but they've cut it down and raised the pension age to 67. They'll continue to rise it as the Treasury's spent all the money so we'll never get it back. I joined to improve my prospects and have a pension. I've worked hard but am not very intelligent so didn't do well and would have loved to. I've looked into retraining but it costs too much. Talk about a catch 22!

That is another sad consequence of what we are seeing - the poor people in low paid jobs who do not have the funds or opportunity to save or pay into any pension scheme. They are to an extent doomed to rely on benefits of some sort for the rest of their lives. £150 basic pension is far from enough if housing needs to be paid out of it - or a contribution made.
I do think that some education about all this should be given to older teenagers so the realise the implications of not having a pension etc.
People should not need to be worried sick about money etc all their lives - often it is not their fault but circumstances. Also being a bolshie teenager who knows best and will not work at qualifications is also a factor for some people till reality kicks in and they find themselves too old for courses etc!

Almost all my neighbours claim benefits and are no worse off than me who's always worked full time. I'm not the smartest and don't have much education and live in an area of high unemployment and low paid insecure jobs. I've always tried and no wonder why. Working has never really benefitted me, and I've been bullied and taken advantage of while the people around me have all their time to themselves and only care about themselves. I rent and won't get a pension. Poverty is seen as shameful these days.