How do the "Have Nots" get on in life?

I forgot to add that at one point DH did a pools round to supplement our income and on another occassion I did someones ironing and cooked for a small organisation. Don't think these things are available now.

I always find it difficult when direct comparisons are made between us and millennials because it simply can't be done.

Apparently housing costs are more for them than us but then clothing and food are a lot cheaper now. Supermarkets sell school uniforms at below what we paid in specialist shops and that is not counting inflation. We were glad to accept second hand furniture because furniture was so expensive but now there is IKEA and other cheap stores.

Phone calls were necessarily brief (and on a party line) because they were so expensive and we tried to make them after 6pm. Now everyone has a cheap phone package and can chat away for long periods.

Around 5% went to university and got grants to do so. Now around 50% go so it is too expensive for the state to fund.

Nowadays there are 2 incomes in most families because children can go to nursery. There were no nurseries for me to send my children to, just one morning a week of play which we mums organised and paid for one qualified helper.

Whether or not you agree with Grammar schools they are still unfair because it depends where you live how easy it is to get into one. In some place 25% qualify, in others it is lower.

Our expectations were to be pretty much as our friends were and that hasn't changed.

That's fine gillybob .

I believe the current system is that the benefit is paid to the tenant unless the tenant requests it to go to the landlord, or unless they have not been paying regularly and the landlord requests payment to themselves.

I would hate to see control taken away from those tenants who are able to budget sensibly.

I really do think that giving people the chance to earn a moderately good wage is important. In some ways I think employment law acts as a disincentive if it becomes too restrictive. Also the benefit trap doesn't help.
But when people are struggling to make ends meet it is so difficult to get out of it.

An excellent post Granny23 .

OOOps I think i might have boobed again. Sorry FarNorth . The point I was making that when you are already on a very tight budget it's far too easy to dip into the rent to pay for this or that (in my case it might have been food or to feed the meter) but if its paid direct at least you will have the roof over your head. So maybe I am disagreeing with you, I'm no longer sure, but I think paying direct was the best way for me.

Blimey some posts (well, one in particular) here teaching Grannies to suck eggs or What?
I may disagree with GrannySue but I at least give her credit for knowing how many beans make 5
There are many of us with experience of disadvantaged people in the community, social workers , health visitors, teachers, police or probation officers and others, and for all I know grannySue is one of them.
Still beg to differ of course

The answer is simple. They don't. Or often don't. Because they have low expectations and expect to fail.

I think the big change is that back in the 40s/50s/60/s we were all in the same boat within our communities, we cut our cloth to suit our means, helped each other out (eg my Dad did anything electrical for the neighbours, man next door, who was a 'shilling a week man' and therefore had a big car, was the local, free taxi service, The slightly better off retired couple at the end of the street had a phone which neighbours were welcome to use for vital calls, those who fished distributed their catch (no fridges or freezers) garden produce was shared too. We had over 300 wedding presents, nothing very expensive, everything from a washing basket with pegs and washing powder to a lifetime supply of sheets, pillowcases, towels and dish towels because the Co-op happened to have a 'white sale' just before our wedding. We did use HP but on a strictly 1 item at a time basis. It was better to save up for large purchases/holidays/Christmas because there was worthwhile interest on savings and high rates of interest on borrowing or HP.

But society has changed totally. We are no longer mainly in the same boat- the gap between the income of the poorest and the well off is ginormous and quite random. Even for retired folk - my widowed sister has a huge civil service pension + half her DH's pension + a full state pension with added credits from her DH's contributions. Because DH was self employed and I was denied a pension from the Bank I worked for because I was a married woman, and then worked in the voluntary sector, we have no 'works pensions' only miniscule private ones and neither of us has a full state pension. Young people today are encouraged to spend on their credit cards, hopefully clearing the balance each month, but if illness, accident, unplanned pregnancy or redundancy strikes, they do not start from a level playing field or with at least modest savings to tide them over. Instead they are plunged into debt immediately, with interest on interest adding to the sum owed each month and no choice but to keep using the credit card for essentials and to make payments on mortgage, mobile phone, internet, TV, boiler, car, etc. contracts.

Changed days indeed - truely a time when the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I'm not sure that you are agreeing with me, gillybob.

My point is that tenants who can budget sensibly are more in control of their rent payments if the money comes to them and not to the landlord.

There are no news articles about those tenants, of course.

That is very sad to read, paddyann.

I agree FarNorth when I was receiving rent rebate (as it was in the 80's) I didn't get the money, it went straight to the landlord and I paid the difference. makes sense to me.

"Whose idea was it to pay housing benefit to the claimant and not directly to the landlord?
Result...thousands thrown out of accomodation just because they spent it all. Why? They had a roof before."

DWP mistakes, causing delays in rent payment to a landlord, resulted in a relative of mine losing a tenancy.

Since then, she has been very happy that housing benefit is paid direct to her so she can make sure the rent is paid regularly and she can sort out any DWP mistakes without causing problems to the landlord.

It works both ways.

There, but for fortune, go you or I.

mental health problems are many and varied ,not all allied to drink and drugs .There are thousands of ex servicemen/women who struggle with PTSD without help from the government who sent them to fight in illegal wars.My ex SIL's best friend is one of those ,a young man who thought he was joining up to learn and have a career in sciences and who soon found that the promised university course didn't materialise he was sent to Afghanistan instead,When he came back he was unrecognisable from the wonderful young man who had left.He lost his wife ,his home and that dream of a career.He lived on the streets for a while because he didn't want the confines of walls and rules ...it took a very long time for him to get a part of his life back.There are sadly many like him.A recent survey on homeless in Glasgow showed that over 500 people who were given accommodation last year have returned to life on the streets ,some because there wasn't enough support...some because they felt the rules and regulations of support were hard to live with ,some who couldn't manage a budget and there are some who beg to supplement the small benefits they recieved and then gave up.It makes very sad reading.I am only grateful that none of my family have had to deal with this way of life.

I would really like to know how envy is stirred up by any politician of any party. Genuinely.
Also, since when has extreme wealth of another person stirred up feelings of grievance ?
Are we such an emotionally poor society?

What a good question Grannysue05

When I read the question I thought it would be about having compassion for people that had a bad start in life

But as I read your post it became evident that you were cheesed off with Lazy Lumps that may want something for nothing.

Ok so ...I agree there are Lazy Lumps that could do something, could do better BUT not all of the have nots are lazy lumps..

Please let me explain..

Who you grow up around effects you, you learn how to live, get on in life, from them because you know no better..

Yes it is not where you start it is where you finish and no there are no excuses if you are healthy and able to work and still fall in the have nots..

But it is soooo much easier for those that have had a good start in life, good sensible parents, loving caring parents, parents that are will and do guide their children and even a little financial help..there is no struggle to get somewhere to a certain point for people that have had a good start.. you have had a good example and so you do not have to spend ten years of your life learning the right way and not the wrong way to deal with things..

I have been around dis advantaged people, I worked as a Youth Worker for four years and saw first hand what really goes on in these peoples lives.

What I was pleasantly surprised about was that given the opportunity these youths would strive, given chances that they deserved as human being brought out the very best in these people, they needed guidance and someone to believe in them too if possible.

And so although I do agree with you in part, please do look at the bigger picture before making your judgment on the have nots.. I felt that if I offered you an insight it may help you understand better the world of the have nots ..

Food vouchers? Really? Maybe you would like the recipients to also wear a badge so that even more people know that they are 'unable to pay their rent'? Good grief.

Perhaps different expectations play a part? All fuelled by constant exposure online/tv etc of 'celeb' lifestyles. The extremes of wealth too must contribute to feelings of grievance among those working hard long hours but not earning what would seem adequate recompense.
Am appalled by Elegrans account of her grandparents experience.

The increase in serious mental health illnesses is caused by alcohol and drug addiction. Depression by shortage of money and to a degree envy stirred up by po,iticians

Times change ( sometimes for the better , but not in all cases) it was a good idea to open up a discussion grannysue though glad that you expected all sorts of replies ( it helps to think that way on GN.)
There are many social reasons for all the problems associated around poverty now, broken families due to divorce or unmarried couples splitting up, drug problems,
Mental health etc which never existed ( in such numbers) in the past.

Well I said my bit way back on the thread and I don’t think all that was implied was to “contrast attitudes”.
All the “should they”’s of the OP make it clear that that is what you believe to be the case, otherwise a pointless rhetorical question.
OP makes a clear point that somehow backbones and upper lips were stiffer in the 50’s and 60’s and shoulders were to the wheel and noses to the grindstone .
No wonder so many older people complain of backache today
Sorry, grannysue but I want no part in this rose tinted view of a miserable post war era (when , if you recall, “SuperMac” was telling us “You never had it so good”) where renting was impossible if you were black or Irish, sex surprisingly did actually exist and back street abortionists flourished, the “never never” also flourished (the man with “the book”came round on a weekly basis) and the older generation denigrated the clothes, music and attitudes of the young.
Plus ça change,...

The comments that you have all made are heartfelt if not heartwarming.
I certainly do not have rose coloured glasses because my whole point was in trying to contrast attitudes and expectations then and now.
As I grew up, worked/married/had children/worked etc. the life ethos was you get out of life what you put into it.
I think that has changed for many today. This has nothing to do with priviledge/wealth/status...it is to do with a change in the way people think.
Sure, life is raw and hard today, and many struggle, and these people are to be helped and praised.
But what of those with a sense of entitlement?
Why can we hand out money to some who are content to just sit back and do nothing in society to earn it.
Whose idea was it to pay housing benefit to the claimant and not directly to the landlord?
Result...thousands thrown out of accomodation just because they spent it all. Why? They had a roof before.
In USA people in need receive food vouchers not cash so money goes where it is needed. Can we do that?

One of my grandmother's sayings (on the weather or temperature) was "as cold as charity" to which she always added "and that is bloody cold . . ."

She knew all about workhouses, too, having ended up in the orphanage of one of them at the age of 12 when her mother died.

Elegran I think many people forget how draconian means testing was!