What would you advise?

Hi Sunseeker. Is it too late to make a suggestion? Have you already resolved your dilemma?
I find all the answers given here very interesting. Everyone seems to make assumptions about the whole family, especially the musician/son. Would it be reading too much into other people's posts to think maybe there's an element of jealousy? Do people wish they'd had the opportunity to follow their own dream, and resent this unknown person for having so much financial help and support to follow his?
But to the point.
I think it's possible that your brother-in-law is casting around for another relative who might have the funds and the inclination to chip in now with some support.
But I think it's more likely that he's asking for support in what should really be a three-way family discussion. He probably feels bereft. I'm guessing everyone in that household is finding it difficult to come to terms with the new situation: father/husband (breadwinner) losing his health and no longer able to fund everything for everyone.
But these three people have been sharing a household (or at least an income) for many years, and so I think should face the new situation together. I would suggest your advice be that they have a "family meeting" and sit down to discuss the new situation and how best to deal with it. That way you can avoid giving either advice or opinion about their lifestyle to date (no one wants to know that people think they've been wrong in their choices!) You could possibly offer suggestions for them to discuss: eg maybe your brother-in-law could ask his doctor to put everything in writing so he can show it to his wife and son, so that they can understand his health issues; as well as all the ideas given in here eg claiming jobseekers allowance. You can offer practical suggestions for them to make decisions on, without even suggesting what you think of a 35-year-old who hasn't spotted that his father's ill and hasn't learned how finances work. And after all, it will be for the "young man" to decide if he would prefer to busk on the street or work "in macdonald's".
I hope you will manage to support your brother-in-law (if that's what you want to do) without alienating the whole family.

Just a simple from the heart sit down conversation

Son I am unwell now, actually not well enough to help as I have done in the past so sorry son I hope you understand

Apologies if someone has said this but what advice does your BIL expect from you? There is only one option open to him and I think the question he may be asking is how to assert himself? If he has always given in to his son, for peace say, he will find it very very difficult to suddenly become assertive.

I don't 'get' why his wife thinks they should carry on supporting him - IF they can't afford it, they can't afford it and even if they COULD afford it, they shouldn't be doing it! Where is this son's pride? Why does he feel he is 'entitled' to be treated like a dependent child? Does he have any other issues? Would it come as a huge shock if they just cut him off?

But I'm confused. Is bil your sister's dh or your dh's brother? Iows. is the mum your sister or your sil? If she's your sister, bil may really be asking you how to get through to her. But if he lets it out that he spoke to you, it could drive a wedge between you and her. Not good.

Even if she's your sil, however, I agree with those who say you're getting pulled into a husband/wife argument. Don't go there. The only advice I think you should give bil is to work this out with his wife. If he says he "can't" maybe mention Relate. That's it. The rest is up to him and his wife.

I agree with nokkie that any change needs to be gradual. Maybe start expecting the son to pay this bill or that or contribute X amount to household bills overall (pay a small rent). Let him figure out how to do it (i.e. work pt or ft, etc.). Increase it periodically (let son know this will happen).This will give both son and mom time to get used to the idea.

But first, bil needs to work this out with his wife. He needs to point to the realities of the situation, and let her know her refuses to go into savings, so compromise is necessary, Relate may help, as Fran suggests.

If they work out their differences, then, maybe they can present the situation to son together. Maybe let him help decide what bills he'll pay, etc. And, of course, he would also have the option to move out (I doubt he would). If he throws up the adoption, I would ignore it. It's emotional blackmail, as pps have said, and I wouldn't let it phase me. But that's just me, of course.

When I had a difficult message of the kind described here I went to Relate to talk it through with an independant advisor. The problem was going round and round in my own head with no solution. Seeing Relate was a 'life saver' in that things were put into perspective and a suggestion made as to a path to follow.

I followed the path, resolved the situation to how I needed to, but of course the other person had to accept my solution. However I am still speaking to the other person concerned.

It sounds to that the sister needs her son as much as he wants their money. Does she need to have him around and be dependent on her to give her own life meaning.

I think the boy's mother's problems need to be addressed first and then kick him out.

Emotionally immature children of all ages will latch onto something to try and emotionally blackmail their children. Birth children will say things like 'I didn't ask to be born, you decided to have me' . His argument is just the adopted child's version. Both should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

Good Luck to you and your BIL in persuading your SIL that the time has come to change the financial situation towards the "budding musician"

Ugh, this 35yr old man sounds not only lazy and selfish but also downright unpleasant. Kick him out I say. Tell him to find his real parents if he thinks they can do so much better.

The son needs to grow up and get a reality check. Any decent 35-year-old would get a paid job, gig in spare time, and try to support and pay back dad for years of financing a dream that hasn't worked out (perhaps the band were crap!) This young man is emotionally blackmailing parents who have more than helped and maybe should've told him to earn his own money and pay his own damned rent a long time ago. This is down to your brother-in-law to sort out - he needs to put his foot down and look after himself from the sound of it. At 35 the 'boy's' excuses are just that, and poor ones - time to live in the real world for him - personally I'd give him a healthy kick up the jaxxie, slap him with the facts of life and tell him to stand on his own two feet and become financially independent as the gravy train is no longer stopping at his station.

He's 35 and he's been doing this since he left school? So 17 years or so?

"My BiL has two problems, his wife thinks they should continue to support their son even to the extent of using their savings. They adopted him when he was a baby and when BiL has tried to reason with him in the past he has flown into a rage and pulled the "you're not my real parents so can't understand" argument."
So really, there's two people that need talking to here - your BIL's wife, and their son.

BILs wife obviously wants to support her son, so must be made to see that by just continuing to give handouts, she is doing exactly the opposite. She is infantalizing him, keeping him dependant on her - she needs to see that cutting the apron strings is the best thing she can do FOR HIM as well as for her husband and herself. Ask how she sees the future panning out - will her son marry and have children? Does she want grandchildren? How will keeping her son on handouts achieve his long-term happiness? I'd even be brutal enough to ask how he will manage when they are both dead. Because barring her son having a fatal accident, that is inevitable, isn't it? How will he live then, since they will have chewed through all their savings trying to support him? He'll be flung onto his own resources with no experience of making his own way. Surely it is better to wean him off handouts now, while they are still their to give practical and emotional (as opposed to financial) assistance? Why would she want to leave him helpless? Yes, this is laying it on with a trowel and guilt-tripping her; but if she can't see it for herself then that's how to get it through to her.

And the son? I wonder if it would be worth turning his own words back on him. He throws "you're not my real parents so can't understand" at them; BIL responds along the lines of 'if you don't feel I'm your father, maybe that's why you don't care that my health means I can't work any more. Is that how you feel about us? That you don't care about us, we're only good for money? That hurts, son.' Again, brutal and trowel-ly, but possibly necessary. I do wonder if your BILs wife already feels at the back of her mind that her son doesn't love her.

I agree this has gone on far to long and the 'lad' must know this, if he hasn't made it by now its not going to happen and music is going to have to become a weekend hobby/part time job. He may need help as others have suggested to get himself sorted out but practical help is all your BIL should now offer, perhaps he could start by saying he can no longer pay the rent after a certain date. Certainly this man should be signed on as unemployed. It sounds like there is going to be a big row at some point so I reckon you should just say he should be straight with his son and leave your advice at that as you don't want to fall out with anybody over this. It might be interesting to talk a bit more to your sister over a coffee and find out why she thinks a grown man should be so sheltered from everyday life, I guess her fear is if the money stops they will never hear from him again.

My Dh was always a full time Joiner and part time Drummer - everything from a rock band, rhythm and blues, country dance, Ceilidh and now a Steel Band. He is an amazing drummer and had offers to go full time pro but turned them down because he worked in a family business and later had young family of his own. His wages and mine kept us ticking over, while his band earnings were saved and provided a deposit for a house for us and later for both of the DDs, a family car, holiodays, etc.

Sorry Sunseeker, I got the relationships the wrong way round.
Perhaps you can persuade your sister to see your brother in law's point?

At 35 there is still time to make a go of another way of making ones living.

I know as I gave the classical music scene a go until I was 36, when I finally admitted I wasn't going to have the career I had dreamed of as a schoolgirl. A harsh truth to face, but I am afraid it is now your nephew and your SIL is going to have to face up to it.

By pointing out that there is time for him to find another way of making a living, your brother may be able to defuse the situation somewhat.

My parents were supportive of my efforts, but I supported myself from the age of 21, although legally they had no obligation to help after I was 18.

Frankly, if the ungrateful not so young man tries playing the "you are not my real parents, so you can't understand" card, I feel he should be told, "You are welcome to try and find your biological parents and see if they do understand and will support you. We are unfortunately no longer able to do so."

No kind of parents are under any obligation to support or even help "children" who have attained their majority.

If it was me, I’d still provide accommodation, but have a house meeting with everyone living at home, explain that your situation has now changed, that in a months time u will need to get money towards food and bills , and can no longer support as you can’t work for health. That gives him a month to get sorted out. We had to support our adult daughter for several years because she was badly injured in an accident and couldn’t work, but that was a different scenario altogether. You need to look out for yourselves now.

Hell's bells... He should have told him this at least 15 years ago. I suggest you sit down with your brother when he tells his son...just so that he sticks to his guns.

There's no option but for the 'boy' to be told the truth and 'get a proper job'. He's been very fortunate in being able to pursue his interests up to the ripe old age of 35 - and there's no doubt that this has strengthened his selfish streak. When 'children' get to this age and have never stood on their own two feet they come to expect parental support as an entitlement. There's only one way to do this - no pussy-footing around otherwise he is likely to try to negotiate - he needs to be told the exact situation and has to come round to the idea that his life is his own responsibility. So for sounding harsh but I have a step relative who is exactly the same and I know how completely stressful this can be for the parent.

I agree with Lemongrove and Nokkie's sentiments. Let's not be so harsh. The lad is neither a parasite or a bully. He is just living on a different planet like my writer son. I have over the years supported my son to help him along the way... he has never asked me for money, but I knew the signs when he didn't have a brass razoo and frankly I wasn't going to stand by and let that happen to him. My shroud will not have pockets and I have saved every penny in order to leave him something when I pass...in the meantime, if I've got it, he can have it...after all he is my child.

I thought some comments were a bit harsh till I read the OP's second post! Flying into a rage and using emotional blackmail to get a free ride at the age of 35! My DD is also 35, a single mother with a despicable ex partner who has just stopped paying maintenance, sends vile texts and emails and is generally bullying. DD works (till this week 2 jobs), is studying and does all the parenting things in school, doctor etc - despicable ex-partner has another women and baby - and yes, since the maintenance stopped, she has asked us to help financially for things like shoes, school uniform etc. She is mortified to have to do this and is grateful for every penny. If we said we couldn't help she would accept it and try to find some other way to manage. This young man, on the other hand, seems to be a free loading bully who needs to wake up and smell the coffee. But OP please be careful - the last thing you want is to antagonise your brother in law or his wife - just say your piece and leave it be. Good luck.

I assume the 'boy' has not signed on as if he had he would have to apply for jobs etc. So i think the first thing is that your brother in law take him to sign on, Then the 35 year old will have to fulfill certain demands made by the state. next I would take him to the local socail housing office and get his name put down for a one bed studio flat or what ever is the smallest dwelling they have. he will receive assisted rent if this is necessary. the housing should be told that due to BinL's health 'boy' will be homeless in six months.

Your bother in law could add into this package that he gets on the list for supported accommodation due to his ill health and move!!

...and thanks for not writing BIL.

Creating and nurturing productive and caring adults is one of the many ways we demonstrate our love as parents.

Your brother in law has more parenting to do.

I think the issue here is adoption, your SIL feels he’s still her responsibility, and he plays on the fact he was adopted and acts like they owe him.He seems like he’s stopped maturing in his teens and he’s stuck there.I doubt this will be solved without upset.Good luck tho.

Good grief... this man is abusing the situation and knows it. He needs a good kick up the arse and told to get a grip and join the real world and get a job. He hasn't succeeded so far in music so probably won't. Thing is, this stand has to come from the parents and not you. You could end up getting the blame for the inevitable row.