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My son hurt his partner

(66 Posts)
GrandmainOz Fri 22-Feb-19 00:58:12

I had to rescue my son's partner and young GC last night and bring them to my home.
It's not the first time my son has been abusive and this time it was physical. GC witnessed it.
Son's partner terrified. She's from another country. All her family and friends are there.
I believe my son is dangerous.
I have booked flights for partner and GC and am about to drive them to airport.
I have not told my son.
I am betraying him in the most enormous way. But I believe in my heart I have to put this young woman and GC first. He's said and done vile things. This is not the loving son I raised.
Please, I need reassurance that I'm doing the right thing. I'm afraid it will cost me my relationship with my son and of course my GC is going away.
Son's partner home country is short haul flight and she has said Son can visit, she won't stop him seeing the child.
She will contact him to this effect once safely with her family.
I'm in such a terrible state. Please tell me I'm right to protect the vulnerable over my own AC

EllanVannin Fri 22-Feb-19 10:04:29

Agnurse, a police decision would be that the mother takes the child to a safe place-----no abduction charge.

annodomini Fri 22-Feb-19 10:12:57

You have done the best for your DiL and GS. I hope you have not put yourself at risk from your violent son. Judging by your forum name, I'm assuming that you are in Australia.

Ginny42 Fri 22-Feb-19 10:27:53

Different countries have different laws. You were dealing with an emergency and removing your DIL and GC gives everyone breathing space and time to cool down and reflect. She and the child are with her own family who will support her and she will feel safe. Your GC is not seeing violence and hearing angry exchanges now. That is all for the good.

However, when she feels calmer she needs to take legal advice. As someone upthread asked, did she ever report the violence to the police, in which case there is documented evidence to support her claim. In England and Wales - (different in Ireland and Scotland) removing children too far from the other parent without permission of a court can result in accusations of abduction. So local laws need to be confirmed.

Also as someone upthread said - what an amazing MIL you are! I agree and thank goodness she had you to turn to in her hour of need. Kind thoughts are winging your way today.

Ginny42 Fri 22-Feb-19 10:30:26

You say she is a short flight away and I too had presumed you are in Australia, I hope you get to see them regularly.

Bibbity Fri 22-Feb-19 12:39:00

Is the country she feels to covered by The Hauge convention?

Caledonai14 Fri 22-Feb-19 13:02:32

GrandmainOz you have been so brave and have absolutely done the right thing. All advice here is good, including the posts which urge legal advice for your ds's partner. Don't forget yourself in this and get some confidential advice from one of the Women's advice charities or from the Citizen's Advice people. Look after yourself and ask for help from the police immediately if you feel threatened in any way. I don't know whether I would have had your strength, compassion and level headedness in similar circumstances, but now you need to think of your own safety and future ... and that of your ds who needs your tough love more than ever, but not at your own emotional and physical cost.

grannyactivist Fri 22-Feb-19 13:40:11

GrandmainOz I've made the assumption that you are in Australia. There is some advice below about parents removing children and also a link to a site looking at the legal aspects of Domestic Violence. A key issue is that of Parenting Orders:

If there’s a parenting order in place, or an application for a parenting order before a court, it’s an offence to move the children away from Australia without the written agreement of everyone covered by the current order, or any further court orders. You may go to jail for this offence. There are rules about what kind of written agreements the court will accept. Get legal advice.

Australia has agreements with other countries to prevent people removing children from the country where they usually live. If you take them overseas without the other parent’s consent, you could be ordered to return them under one of these agreements.

Eloethan Fri 22-Feb-19 15:37:01

It must have been awful decision for you to make but I think you did the right thing. You put your daughter in law and your grandchild first, at the risk of possibly damaging your relationship with your son and giving up close contact with your grandchild. I think you were very brave and principled.

Cold Fri 22-Feb-19 17:07:26

Be very careful. You need to make sure that she gets proper legal advice about the consequences of running.

I had a friend in a similar situation and her first instinct was to take her son and run back to her family in the USA. I impressed on her to do nothing until she spoke with a lawyer. The lawyer told her that her actions would leave her open to a charge of parental abduction under the Hague Convention - which could result in the child being returned to her ex and her losing custody. She eventually did get custody and but her ex got 2 months of visitation per year.

There was a heartbreaking case in Sweden almost 20 years ago - the so called "Kimberly case". The Swedish mother fled home from South Africa with the 3 children aged 15, 11 and 7 year old Kimberly. The father went to Court citing the Hague convention. The 2 boys were allowed to decide where they live and opted to stay with their mother in Sweden but Kimberly was too young. The fact that the mother had "abducted" the child and that the child's normal residence was in South Africa went against the mother in the custody hearing and the child was ordered returned to South Africa - despite the fact that the husband's long working hours meant that she would be brought up by a nanny.

NanTheWiser Fri 22-Feb-19 17:33:48

GrandmainOz, I am so pleased you had the courage to help your daughter-in-law escape and I will tell you why:

Two weeks ago today, A young mother of four children was stabbed to death by her estranged husband just 100 yards from my house. She had been living in a "safe house" for the last month, and was under the Police Safeguarding unit, so there had obviously been prior abuse and violence from her husband.

Fortunately, he was caught and arrested a couple of hours later, and will appear at Crown Court in March charged with her murder.

This shocked our neighbourhood to the core, (we are in a nice Surrey area, which rarely has had such a violent event) and as the lady was from Brazil originally, a large sum of money has been raised by the local community to repatriate her body to Brazil, and provide funds to help her family with legal requirements to look after the children.

While your son may not harbour such violent thoughts, it is commendable that you have helped to take your daughter-in-law out of harm's way.

I do agree, though, that legal advice should be sought quickly, on her position regarding taking the children away.

My best wishes go to you and your family.

Bridgeit Fri 22-Feb-19 19:42:29

Well done brave lady, you did the right thing.
He now has two choices from this wake up call, get help & change his ways, or loose everyone. Big hugs, it takes tremendous courage to do what’s right. Big hugs

Tangerine Fri 22-Feb-19 19:43:36

You've done the right thing.

Jalima1108 Fri 22-Feb-19 20:43:29

Well done grannyactivist for posting that link.

However, would ordering them to return to an abusive parent be a matter for the courts to decide if necessary?

I think you have done the right thing under the cirsumstances, GrandmainOz and I hope that you may be able to help your son to received some treatment or anger management to help him in the future.

Surely there is nothing that can obstruct a parent taking children to visit family in another country?
As you say it is not far away, I presume NZ or PNG, which may be sympathetic towards your DIL?

Best wishes.

Jalima1108 Fri 22-Feb-19 20:44:01

sorry about typos, I posted in haste.

Bibbity Fri 22-Feb-19 21:04:26

The problem would be proving the violence. If the mother has no police record of the abuse then as far as the courts would initially be concerned it didn’t happen until it’s proven it happensed.
However the child abduction would very easily be proven straight away.

It may not be accepted as a holiday as
The father wasn’t consulted.
I assume there are no return tickets booked and there has been no return date given to the other parent.

Jalima1108 Fri 22-Feb-19 21:08:42

As the mother, GrandmainOz would be an extremely credible witness if it came to that, which I hope she will not have to do.

Jalima1108 Fri 22-Feb-19 21:09:32

However the child abduction would very easily be proven straight away.

This is a mother taking her child to her home country.

Bibbity Fri 22-Feb-19 21:12:29

Yes. Without the permission of the father and without a return date. It may not go to the extremes of the children being removed immediately but he would very easily have a court demanding that she bring the children back to their father very very soon.

Jalima1108 Fri 22-Feb-19 21:14:55

I don't think that they need worry about that, quite frankly.

Bibbity Fri 22-Feb-19 21:43:10

I disagree. I would say that getting legal advice needs to be their most urgent matter.

starbird Fri 22-Feb-19 22:16:53

A girl has gone go stay with her parents without telling her partner. I assume they are not Moslems ( where getting man’s permission may be obligatory).

Assuming they have got away by now, my concern is for mum. Son appears to have uncontrolled anger or drug problems and is violent. I hope GrandmainOz does not live alone or at least can go to a friend’s house.

Of course we don’t know the other side - possibly there is provocation, but that would not justify physical violence. Either way I admire op for her actions - a clean break, DIL back to parents - who doesn’t want their mum if they’ve been beaten up? The alternative might have been a woman’s refuge, but it sounds as though she is not too far away so he can go and talk it over with her in the safety of her parents’s home.

Bibbity Fri 22-Feb-19 22:19:27

I am not defending him. I am really hoping that the DIL is covering herself to ensure that her and her children are protected from him. Unfortunately in regards to the law men can use the legal system to continue to abuse their partners and children.

GrandmainOz Fri 22-Feb-19 22:22:21

Thankyou so much to everyone for your advice and support. I can't tell you how grateful I am.
Young lady and GC now safely with her family. I have spoken to her and also to her own mother who is very thankful and has been very sensible.
We made a phone call to local police who basically said my son didn't have a leg to stand on as they would arrest him for domestic abuse if he approached them. We also saw the GP and had the situation recorded in GC's notes before they left.
I have spoken to Son. I have lied about my involvement with the flit which I feel terrible about, but it seems the only way.
Partner contacted Son earlier, explained in a message her reasons for leaving, and said she was willing to arrange regular video calls and visits with GC notwithstanding her wish that the relationship ends now.
My son is in shock but tells me he knows he behaved terribly. It seems he "snapped" and he is full of remorse and accepts the relationship has ended as a result. They have both told me separately they only stayed together because she became pregnant. They are wildly unsuited, both volatile and extremely impatient and I have witnessed so much shouting and name calling on both sides.
This is not to excuse anything, just explaining what it's been like.
I think we're all still in shock. I am of the view now that I may have prevented the situation escalating to the point where my son may have done something we could never forgive. So I am at peace with my role, although she sad it's ended like this . Horrible saying goodbye to little GC but I know his mother's family are good, loving people so that's a bonus in this sadness.
Thankyou ALL again

GrandmainOz Fri 22-Feb-19 22:51:06

Also, sorry, me again. No drugs involved. But I DO think Son drinks too much (which I have tried to talk to him about) and I believe he has anger management issues. We as a family have had a terrible time since the death of another AC a few years ago. Not an excuse but it has affected each of us strongly in different ways. Son needs therapy IMO.Wish he had help before it came to this. But he wouldn't listen to me. He is such a huge loud man that he can be very scary just by raising his voice. He can't help his size and volume, it's the attitude that needs to change

Marydoll Fri 22-Feb-19 22:54:02

GrandmainOz, you have my utmost admiration. 💐