NHS complaint: Yes or no?

Hi Fennel

I hope it goes better for you and it probably will. Most of the hospital experience is good and at least is interesting in some ways.

I've decided to take s bottle of water with me. My letter does say I can have fluids before the procedure.

Others may have said this already, but if not, contact the PALS department at the hospital.

As others have said, not a formal complaint, but a letter. However, as has also been pointed out there can be good reasons for needing everyone there to start with.
When I needed minor day surgery on my stoma, it was me that pointed out to the Consultant previously that as there were no nerves there I could have it done without anaesthetic.
Caused my own chaos with that, when it was finished, nurses kept trying to prevent me leaving without someone accompanying me, and I kept pointing out that I did not need anyone as I had received no anaesthetic.
When I went first thing in the morning, and realised I was not going to be done until afternoon, I asked if I could go back home to wait. As the Sister in charge knew me (I worked at that hospital), I was eventually given permission, being told to return by Midday. When I did return I queried why they had been so reluctant to let me leave for a couple of hours and was told it was because, when they had done this with other patients, they often did not return.
Yes, they do expect, and have to take into account, a lot of 'no shows'.
Nothing to be feared about with day surgery, Take a good book, and a bottle of water. Unless you have some sort of condition like diabetes it really does none of us any harm to go a few hours without eating.

boat I worked as a nurse for over 42 years and although I can empathise with you I do understand just how these things happen. You wouldn’t have been made aware if there was a good reason for the delay due to patient confidentiality but one of the doctors could have been asked to deal with an emergency or perhaps a day patient may have taken longer to deal with due to complications. I frequently investigated complaints from patients and very often something like this can easily be explained.

You cant run an appointment system for surgeries. There really is no way of knowing for sure how long it'll take till they go in. It would be too wasteful to leave an operating theatre and full staff doing nothing because apt 1 was a quickie and the next "slot" person hadnt arrived yet!

However nil by mouth policies do need to be reviewed. There is often no need to be completely nil by mouth from the previous midnight. And water is usually fine up until 4 hrs before. People should be advised if they can have a light early 6am breakfast instead of everyone having nothing since the day before

Hi Folks.

Thanks for all your advice and comments. I have gone down the PALs route.

I now have to have a CT scan at another hospital seven miles in the opposite direction to the previous one. They are saying no food, just fluids, for four hours before my appointment time at 3 pm.

It's all very educational.

CTs can be appointment based. Its totally different and not comparable at all to surgeries

My OH had a similar experience when admitted for hip replacement. Everyone called early in the morning, but wasn't chaotic. All bloods etc and admission procedures carried out whilst people were in the waiting room. Advised it was difficult to give patients timed admissions as lists may be changed because of emergencies and so on. He was allowed a drink when he wasn't called by lunch time. This way it is flexible for the hospital and meant that wards were not used until post op giving time to discharge inpatients. This seemed the most efficient way in my experience.

My son benefitted from the no drinks beforehand policy when he went for an operation on his ankle. The woman due in before him drank water, so he was bumped up the list!

There are some proceedures where the gut has to be completely empty and for those a long total nil by mouth period is needed.

For other ops though people only need empty stomachs so they dont vomit so there is really no need for them to be nil by mouth for 12 hours! 6/8 hrs for food and 4 hrs for water is plenty. Ask at pre admission for it to be clarified for your specific proceedure.

It does need an overhaul. No one should be putting ALL pre op people nil by mouth for 12 hours that should only be for specific cases

5 years ago I had an operation to repair my abdomen following a previous appendectomy ( I had a mesh repair to a rupture )
Whilst waiting I was asked if I would take part in research into ‘nil by mouth’ prior to surgery as there was a school of thought that the time of abstinence was too long .
I had to answer a questionnaire before and after the operation.
I wonder how long the research project is running for ?

Not the research is already available that 12 hrs is only necessary for certain proceedures and not needed for most, even more than that, outcomes can be better when people are not routinely completely nil by mouth since the day before (with exemptions for certain abdomen / digestivs surgeries. but in practice there are still people who say 12hrs for no reason other than habit or erring too much on the side of caution

The nil by mouth policy allows hospitals to switch and arrange lists on the morning of operation, otherwise some would have to be cancelled I think.

Yes but even assuming you could get bumped up to first on the list. Which happens: people no show, havent stopped meds they were supposed to stop etc, most people should still be allowed to have water up until about 4 hrs before start of list. Not nil by mouth 12 hrs before start of morning list.

Some people will sleep past that window but many arent able to sleep well before ops and could have a drink in the early hours.

Not for all ops mind. Not the ones that need an empty gut, just the ones that need an empty stomach, which is most.

The NHS doesn't operate a "normal appointment system" because there are many selfish and inconsiderate people - or, to give some the benefit of the doubt - people with issues that affect their ability to function normally.

Many hospitals and GP surgeries publish the numbers of missed appointments that they experience- and they can be surprisingly high. By booking in several people for the same or nearly the same time slot there is more chance that resources will not be wasted.

You can't really compare a hairdressers' appointment to a hospital appointment.

They do do appointments. Just not for surgery lists as there is no way to stick to time slots as there are so many variables as to how long each will take. And how it needs to be ordered and prioritised changes even while the list is started.

Some people come out of surgery then need to go back in. Appointment slots would never work in the nhs as the only way to do it would be to give long slots to allow for all possibilities, and that would leave loads of wasted time when theyre quick. Wait lists would have to trebld

Treble