Not sure what to do

Tillybelle

Thankyou for taking the trouble to explain,

You obviously are looking at the situation in a professional way, whereas I, with no background in psychology, am just reacting as if a friend was telling me this worrying tale.

I also am concerned for the little girl, if it was one of my grandchildren I’d be very upset, I only feel that what’s said, can’t be taken back, and if the son takes offence, and stops visiting, the situation will be worse

I think it’s great that people such as yourself are here to offer expert advice, but I’m sure psychologists need a few more facts to work with than we have here

Sara65. Bother! I forgot! I was taught that if you write on a public forum there may be others, not just the person who first wrote in, who are needing help and they might need the extreme end of the information, if you know what I mean. Therefore cover the spectrum of where to get help from something simple and easy to the crisis end. You just never know who might need it and it's only a couple of words.

Sara65

"Some of the responses are a bit strong" Yes you're right! But I am used to this comment!

I am a retired Psychologist and have worked in three main fields. In each one we were always aware of safety. The most important thing is to maintain safety. I worked in two hospitals and for a charity (sorry to those who know) replying to people who were in a particularly distressing situation.
In each place on the first contact we had to assess the client's safety or level of risk (and watch it all the time). If somebody writes to you, you sometimes have to "read between the lines" are they suicidal? How much danger might they be in from their abuser? Some people on the latter question would not even be aware of how dangerous their abuser might be for many reasons, often they simply are attuned to a level of fear and live with it as though it is natural.
Anyway to try not to bore you because I could go on for ever! We would give advice and support ranging from how to manage a low-level problem to how to get help in a crisis. We were not there all the tine so we could not second guess what might happen. I learned quickly that furnishing people with telephone numbers in case of crises, for example, was not an over-reaction. I also learned that the seemingly low-level problems sometimes turned out to be hiding something explosive.

Sorry if that was a long-winded way of saying that my background taught me it is safer to give people all the information just in case they need it and hope to God that they don't! I would rather have people laugh at me for being "over the top" than not give info to someone who might suddenly need it. Hope you can understand me! Thanks!

Rolypoly55, I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.

My upbringing was similar - with my dad constantly picking on me. Unfortunately it had dreadful consequences: lack of self-esteem, being shy, constantly frightened of doing anything wrong. I became depressed and was finally diagnosed with depression in my early 20's. Don't get me wrong - dad was a good father and very much a hands on chap who would take us down to the beach, play with us, teach us to swim, a good provider. (Things mum couldn't do because of crippling RA).

I had counselling later on in life, which helped, but after my dad's death I talked about it with mum. It closed a chapter in my life and from then on I became a happier person. Mum was sad that it had affected me so badly and said she didn't realise it. I advised that each of us siblings handled things differently.

I'm not sure what the long term effect will be on your grandchild but I am glad that you are aware of what is happening and have asked those on Gransnet for advice. Good luck with whatever you decide to do in the end.

In fairness Tillybelle, I haven’t accused you of making judgments, but I still say some of the posts are very harsh, and quite frankly, I don’t think very helpful

Sara65.
I meant to say about your comment: "reluctant to demonise the girlfriend".
Please take note, I only address the behaviour that is what the person does I do NOT label people with phrases or words such as your use of "demonise".

I am only concerned with what people do and whether it harms them or another. I do not make judgements. In this case the girlfriend has been described as "picking at" and "niggling" the 5 year old and being "very verbal" and believing she is always right. So discussion with her is clearly not possible in a proper sense of give and take. To be constantly niggled and picked at is harmful to a child and the OP is right to be concerned. She may speak to her son and find that his G/friend only does it in front of Granny. Who knows? We do not know. But we can suggest ideas across the spectrum from what to do in the case of not very seriously harmful behaviour to how to get help in the case of very seriously harmful behaviour and leave it with the OP to know what is appropriate in her situation.

You say of the g/friend: "we don’t know if she has other children," but the OP has told us: " she has no children herself". That is a relevant fact to this situation as is the fact that the Grandmother has known the little girl as she says, "since from day 1...."

I find it relevant that the grandmother does not just say the g/friend has no children but "she has no children herself and knows it all. " That is interesting information. It does not "demonise" it describes an attitude and her behaviour - that she thinks she knows things about children yet has no experience and that she talks about the things she thinks she knows.

I find that sometimes people jump to conclusions of their own without reading exactly what is written. I do not label or judge people. I just observe the behaviour. The more that is described by the OP the better.

Thankyou Tillybelle for your insight.

I see what you’re saying, that we only have what we have to go on, and I’ve no doubt whatever that this is a heart felt plea for help and advice

I just think some of the responses are a bit strong, when we don’t have all the facts

Sara65. What you say is fair. The thing about our posts here is that we hear from a person who is upset and stressed and extremely worried about something and is crying out to us for ideas on how to change things for the better. That is all we can hear in this situation, the viewpoint of the person writing in distress and asking for help. The behaviour of the person causing her distress would be seen differently by that person no doubt. But our perspective here can only be from the Granny's who wrote in. I used to deal with written cries for help and advice on a different matter, mainly about people who were being bullied, and am used to hearing from just one side. I always trust what people write as their valid experience. That is all we can do in this situation. I believe that here, with a broad spectrum of people replying who are giving a broad range of ideas on how she may move forward, the person writing in might be able to use what will work in her situation by matching the most suitable ideas to it. Only she knows the people involved and only she can make the final decision. I trust the person who writes in. For a person to write asking for help it usually means they have been worrying for quite a long time and things are getting too much for them. We can only give suggestions. She will know which are best for her situation.
Even then the person she is worried about may not desist from causing a problem. She may need further help. Or someone may show her that she is too lenient with the little girl. But in this case I rely on our Poster's judgement because she has known the child longest. If necessary, the child's school Teacher might be able to cast light on whether the constant corrections of the Father's girlfriend are required or whether the child is fine without them.

Tillybelle

You’re right of course, a lot of damage can be done in a very little time, and everyone’s priority needs to be the little girl

However, I’m a bit reluctant to demonise the girlfriend without knowing a few more facts. We don’t know how old she is, we don’t know if she has other children, and we don’t know how much time she spends with the child

It’s possible she’s trying to assert some authority, because the child and granny gang up on her a bit, probably not intentionally. But she may feel insecure in her new role, and for all we know, she behaves quite differently when they’re not at grannies.

If it just turns out she’s an unpleasant, mean bully, that’s a different matter, but I just don’t think we know enough to condemn her completely

One interesting thing about this is that despie several people asking about the extended family situation (ie child's mother, other grandparents etc) we haven't had a response. it's difficult to respond without having the full picture.

Sara65 Like you, I would be glad to hear of the amount of time the little girl is in contact with the picking niggling woman. However, I do think that if she lives with her mother most of the week but her time with this person and her father it is a regular thing and the picking woman is always there when she sees her father, it could still do a lot of harm. I was made to visit my mother's parents, who lived near us, on a regular basis, about twice a week. Neither liked me because they disapproved of my mother's marriage to my father. My older half sister was their favourite. They used to constantly criticise me finding fault with every little thing about me. I did not live with them but their words would echo in my head and I had a very poor self-image throughout school until one Teacher told me off for saying something about myself that my grandmother had said for the last 10 years! I took a different look and things slowly changed. But contact with a verbally abusive person does not have to be every day to have a bad effect on a child.

*It's not even her child!!
Ban the stupid woman from coming to your home while the wee kiddie is there. And tell her - and your son - why!*

That seems a recipe for potential eventual estrangement in my view! Of Granny from her grandchild and her son!!!!

Bless you Tillybelle xx

Thanks everyone, your replies confirm my thoughts and I will be having a conversation with my son, at the end of the day its better I say something now and have no regrets as regards my DGD xx

Rolypoly55. Good luck with your chat. You do know best, whatever we say, we do not know your son and despite your good description, haven't met this woman. We can only give our suggestions for you to match up against the situation as you actually know it.
I think you have capable hands and your DGD is lucky to have you. Please do not feel daunted to speak up for her. She needs you. Wishing you all the very best, Elle.

Very upsetting as a grandmother to see this but it is up to your son to have words. Mention your concerns to him and ask him if it is you who are over-reacting or if he can see a problem with the way his girlfriend interacts with his daughter.

Sorry hit the wrong post, still getting to grips with the site xx

Thank you, I hopefully after my chat won't need it, thanks for your advice. Xx

Do something! Speak up!
I too was a verbally abused child.. constantly picked on!
Speak to your son and tell him it’s wrong!
Poor child

The child is the important one here. If you can’t speak to this bully yourself them your son needs to. It’s verbal abuse and bullying.
I would also have a word with the mother of the child

I dont think you said whether the little girl lives with your son and step-mum or does she live with her mum and this picking goes on when she is staying with Daddy and when they come and visit you during him time with her?

I apologise if I’ve missed something, but does the little girl live with dad and girlfriend full time, or is it a weekend thing?

I agree with the other posts. This is a difficult situation. Explain that you we picked on as a child and it left you feeling unliked/unloved. You don't need to say it is his partner you believe is doing this. it could be other children. Say how easy it is to do this to a young child without realising how damaging it can be. Suggest he and his partner look at ways of building your GCs esteem and praising her good behaviour. verbal abuse is a form of bullying - try to get your son and his partner to realise this in a positive way without causing more problems for GC. Good luck.

I agree you need to speak up - children are faced with adults who hold most of the power, and sometimes a grandparent needs to be their champion. But how you do it is important - as others have suggested, speak to your son, and he needs to hear that you are speaking without criticising or attacking, but solely out of love for your granddaughter - if he feels attacked, he will become defensive and not really hear what you are saying. You love your son and your granddaughter, so speak from love not from anger and criticism. Its worth remembering that it is hard being a step mother - that is why they are so often 'wicked' in fairy stories - and she too needs understanding in support of her becoming a kinder and more understanding 'new ' mother. If you think it might help, there is a great book called "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk" by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. They have also produced a book about Teenagers.
Good luck!

Whether your sons partner liked it or not
I would speak up. Ask her if she would like to be picked on if she was a little girl. It's bullying. I dare say she gets picked on elsewhere while in the company of the partner, not just at your house.
If you're granddaughter was as school and another child was picking on her then you'd expect something to be done about it via a head teacher. Put a stop to it. This little girl can't defend herself, but you can.