Should Have Kept my Big Mouth Shut!

You did the right thing. Your SiL probably doesn't realise how much damage he is causing or how damaged he is himself. Show him this and ask him to think about what his parents did to him.

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

We can tell from your post that usually you are very aware and very careful, kind and considerate of others especially your family even when there are situations that would test the patience of angels.

Somehow today you were simply human - doing the best you can in difficult circumstances.

Be extra kind to yourself today - forgive this blip - smile at the ridiculousness of that negative, nagging voice inside that will keep trying and keep trying to make you feel bad because of this slip. There isn't any need to feel bad.

Our humanity is also our love.

I appreciate that it was very difficult but your grandson has grown up with the most horrible abuse. I don’t think I could have kept quiet for so many years. A grandad bully, a bully for a dad and now he is the school bully. This might well continue through your grandsons life with him being the husband and father bullying his family.
You cannot put right all that has passed and all the put downs that have occurred and it might be too late for things to be put right but you can only start from here and I hope that your dear grandson can change from the attitude that men need to be cruel and abusive. This is so far from the truth but so far it is all he has seen. Poor boy he must be very unhappy at the moment.

Your daughter may think about what you've said for a while. Our childhoods can leave a mark on us (mine has). I think the piece by Russell Brand is very true. Good luck.

I agree with KatyK. It's not like you told your daughter it was her fault, you blamed the SIL. You can probably get away with it one time. I advise don't mention it again. She'll think on it.

well maybe now she will look most closely at her husband ,and realise he is the problem ,not her son...maybe counselling for all ,starting with the school.....then the husband .he's nothing less than a bully...i'm glad you said it. good for you......

No details but my SiL was verbally abusive to his children, (my GCs), and after a particular bad incident that I witnessed, I spoke to my daughter. She excused his behaviour as work stress. Instead of holding back I told her what I thought.
Change didn't occur overnight but it did and has happened and everyone is so much more relaxed and happy. A diagnosis of ASD/ADHD for my 2nd GS and a change of job for my SiL als had a huge positive effect.

Sometimes, speaking out is the only thing you can do.

Good for you for saying what needed to be said. Your daughter might not like it but its time she faced up to the truth. If she cant stand up for her son then someone has to. If there is a school inclusion officer involved try having a quiet word with them. You dont need to go into details but you could try saying that your GS may have things that he needs to get off his chest about family relationships.
I having a feeling his father knows exactly what hes doing and was either brought up with critisism himself or is jealous of the boy. I wonder if your GS is bright and his father feels threatened by it.

You had no choice. Your daughter did not want to hear it but that doesn't mean that she won't think about it and not ignore it next time she hears him do it.
I wish someone had done that for me when I was a child although my father was more careful to usually be nasty when there was no one else around. Your SIL sounds as if he is just copying learned behaviour and doesn't really know any other way. It is unfortunate that your daughter ignored it rather than pulling him up on it at the time. Very few people want to be bad parents and, approached the right way, he probably could have changed particularly if he was reminded of how he felt about it as a child.
The question is where to go from here. I would give her time to absorb what you said and then decide how to approach her because you need to be in your GS's life. He needs someone giving him confidence and pointing out the good things that he does and it looks like that has to be you.

You might have, unknowingly, done every one a favour.
Now at least your daughter has another slant on things, another viewpoint which may just encourage her to notice things she previously overlooked or didn't overhear.
I hope this is the case and your DD tackles her DH about his behaviour towards their son.
Fingers crossed it works out for the best.

Your DD asked, and you answered. So i would say don't beat yourself up about it. When you next speak to her, tell her you are sorry if you upset her and that wasn't your intention. But you genuinely want to help with the situation because the boy is such a bright boy who you love dearly.

You did the right thing...too long we hold our tongue to keep the peace but what we end up doing is enabling the person to carry on.
Your DD will no doubt be shocked & angry initially but then hopefully she'll start to think back on the incidents you have mentioned and then take action.
She will come back to you in due course

What you have definitely done wrong is to not speak up sooner.

It's a classic history repeating itself the bullied becoming the bully.

You need to have a good long talk to your daughter and admit you were in the wrong but only because you have not said anything sooner then blurted it out at a vulnerable time.

Sort yourselves out to help this sad young boy out going forward.

I think you were right to speak out, someone has to to protect your GS. You have stated about the trouble he is getting into. He sounds like a very unhappy boy and you are right to stand up for him. It sounds like the family could use some counselling. To say those things to a little boy is horrid and abusive I am surprised you haven’t taken your SIL aside before now, well done for showing restraint, but you GSmis getting hurt.

Sounds like this needed to be said, and good for you to have said it. No doubt your DD is shocked but presumably even if she is trying to keep the peace and be reasonable at home she is not blind and must see that her H is unkind, bullying and unreasonable.
If you start beating yourself up remember:
'If you ignore it, you condone it; if you condone it you encourage it'.
You can't do that - and you have spoken up to defend your GS. Good for you.

The difficulty is that we all live too far away for any of us to intervene effectively. DD2's older sister (my other daughter) was visiting her sister three years ago when she too witnessed the abuse. At the time, she also had a lot to say and despite the ensuing row, it led to some family counseling. Things seemed to improve and SIL2 was on his best behavior for awhile, but it didn't last.

During our visit this last May, we witnessed once again the same kind of abusive language towards our GS. I held back because we were leaving the next morning. In retrospect, I think that's what prompted my reaction yesterday, over the phone.

Now that he's older, GS is sullen and withdrawn most of the time and doesn't have much to say to the adults in his life, including us. He prefers to spend his time looking at 'screens'. We could say that this is not unusual for pre-teens these days, but the paternal abuse and the other behavioral issues outside of the home are not.

Your DD needing speaking to about this willa and maybe things will improve.
If not, I feel sorry for this boy.If it carrries on, when he is fully grown he will punch his Father and leave home ( I knew somebody who did just this) he lived for the day he was stronger than his Father.
Speaking was better than being there and intervening at their home.You have done what you can, and if you apologise then it looks as if you are condoning this awful bullying behaviour.

In your place, I would write my daughter a letter, apologising for having brought the matter up over the phone as that sort of conversation should have been held face to face.

I would also make very clear, as politely as possible, that I had no intention of retracting the things I had said about my son-in-law and the way he treats his son. He is doing harm to the boy, and by treating his daughter so differently, harming the relationship his children have with each other.

Say again that you realise your SIL abuses his son because he was abused in the same way by his father. Please do make it quite clear that verbal abuse is just as harmful as any other kind.

I would add that I regretted not having spoken out years ago, but I had tried to hold by the old saying that no good comes of meddling between man and wife, and it is your daughter's job to protect her children against this man.

Say too, what should be perfectly clear, that you love your daughter and grandchildren and will do your best to continue being polite to your son-in-law, even although you find his behaviour reprehensible and that you hope your daughter will forgive your outspokenness.

A different situation, but my nephew had appalling behavioural problems his entire life. When he was ten or eleven my dsis took him to family therapy and it completely turned the situation around, saving him and the world a whole host of problems.

That sounds like what your dd's family needs.

You did the right thing
Your daughter is in denial of her bully of a husband and I wouldn’t sit back and let it continue either.
She hung up because she knows what you are saying is true.
She’ll come round don’t worry
But don’t apologise for what you said. You spoke the truth and sometimes it sucks

Its tempting to ignore things, but they have a way of coming out, eventually.
Its good that you said something because otherwise you're condoning it, and allowing your daughter to turn a blind eye.

I'm sure now your daughter will feel that it needs to be addressed, and that's a positive thing.

I think you did the right thing and that like Gabriella I think said perhaps spoken sooner. That was no way to speak to any human being. I have done a similar thing recently over my darling 13 year old grandson. He has changed so utterly in the last six months and is a sullen unpleasant child. My sil is selfish and self-centred- he lives for sport and the children make do with what's left. My DD has recently changed jobs( she is the breadwinner) . Sil set up a business several years ago and has yet to make money but his world wide travelling takes precedence over the children. I presume the change in the gs is due to mother changing job and teenage hormones. Stupidly I opened mouth and said either he needs counselling or they all need family counselling. I have not heard from any of them since. The children were supposed to be staying with me this summer but I've not heard a word. Op did not mean to hijack the thread but I wanted to say the child should come before the parents. Sometimes we have to be their advocates when their parents are selfish or wrong. Even if we lose out.

I must add there was violence from the child and threats to runaway - he is taller than I am and strong.

You can't unsay what's been said. You were asked for your opinion, you gave it. If people don't hear the answer they want to hear, they shut down.

Hopefully, you've given her food for thought.

Well Done for speaking up - yes, she may have hung up but at least it will have given her food for thought. Many people would have done the same as you. I hope you can resolve with your daughter the issues speaking up might have caused and she realises that her husband could be the problem. Maybe the father was too abused as a child and he is scarred. Family counselling might help.