Should Have Kept my Big Mouth Shut!

I think the OP should post that on mumsnet.. Imo you said what needed saying..but you know your DD well enough to know if she'll understand your frustration.. We can't all be perfect silent gp when we see what's plainly wrong. You sil sounds like a bully and that needs to be addressed. Give your DD time and she will hopefully come round..then suggest to her that she could talk to your gs about whether he wishes to talk to her or a professional family therapist.. Hes been coping too long with this..poor lad. I would be interested to hear whether mumsnet readers can offer any advice.. Then you've got a balance of views and advice.

You have given her food for thought though, haven't you and told the truth, and that is not a bad thing. No need to raise the subject again now, you've said your piece.

Hmmm... If counseling was working before, it may work again. Am I right in guessing that they stopped going? Hopefully, now they will resume.

Stansgran, under the circumstances, I think you were right to speak up as well. And all you did was make a suggestion, not criticize, etc. If DD and SIL resent that suggestion, oh well, it clearly needed to be said. Then again, perhaps they have followed it and are silent b/c they are focused on fixing their family (I hope so). Or maybe they just need time to think things over. I know it will hurt if you find yourself CO (cut off). But, frankly, GS sounds dangerous. So if they're not getting help, then maybe you will benefit from some space.

You did the right thing willa - SO much destruction of your dgs's self esteem and potential for future happiness is at stake here! You've been brave and been his advocate in all this. Who else is going to speak the truth? I wish someone could have found the courage to speak up for me when I was being bullied by my father.
You know that your motives came from the natural, protective love you have for your dgs.

TBH your daughter already knows , you can't live with someone like that and not know , sadly your daughter is as guilty as the father . this boy had suffered abuse and no one had stopped his abuser . He will live with it forever , How do I know ? Because my stepfather was like that with me and even now I can’t accept a compliment . Don’t apologise except to the boy

my mouth would've been open long before now, in fact a few years back I stopped talking to my sister and BiL over the bullying treatment he was dishing out to his daughters, and a friend whose partner at the time was doing the same to her daughters. Having been through a brief, but albeit verbally and physically abusive marriage, I was not about to see these girls getting treated like this at a young age. I have no regrets for what I did. Both sister and friend saw the light and got rid of their partners

As said previously you are totally in the right here,it needed to be said but really should have been aimed at the father directly.
Your daughter put down the phone because she knows you are right in what you have said and does not want to admit it.
I would go back to her now and ask her if she has calmed down after the home truths and that you both need to sit down and talk about it.

Well done for saying what you did, perhaps you can call her back as glammanana suggested but perhaps you could write to your grandson as well.
I'm sure he feels let down by the adults in his life who are suppose to love and protect us but apologising for not doing more and saying what you've already said may help him.
It's never too late for change if people genuinely want change. The books suggested earlier about ' The book your children wished you read and your grandchildren will be glad you did' is defiantly worth reading and passing on to your family. Also try 'The chimp paradox' and pass that on
Good luck and try not to stress yourself over speaking your mind, well done

willa45, I'm so for sorry the situation you and your family are in, it must be heartbreaking for you all.
I have seen this firsthand with a friend of mine and her son.
Your daughter needs to recognise what is happening in order to help your DGS.
I wouldn't reach out to your DGS in any way other than your norm as this may just make him feel that all eyes are on him and he has "messed up," again.

Is it possible for you and your DH to invite your DGS to stay with you over the summer for maybe a week? Along with any siblings of course.
Show him how adults treat young people with respect and appreciation in contrast to his dad's treatment, show him how valued he is.
I say show because all too often adults just talk at children when the best way is to show them by our own behaviour. If you can build up a rapport with him during such a time you could try to continue it when he returns home. Establish a trust that he can always come to you if and when in need.
In the meantime, by all means apologise to your DD2 for the way in which you brought this to her attention, you know your own family and I'm sure you will know when is a good time to do this and how.
Is it possible for you to speak with your SIL2 and suggest the family counselling again? With patience and good advice your family might be able to break the cycle and your DGS can recover from a sad start.
I wish you success in finding a resolution. x

I think you did the right thing in this case. Yes, in an ideal world, it would not have been blurted out over the telephone but these things can't always be planned.

I hope you can speak to your daughter soon or to your son-in-law. If the conversation is planned in advance, it may be easier to remain calm. If you're not calm, you may say more than you mean.

If it had been a trifling thing, I'd say "keep quiet" but this was a worrying matter.

I wonder if she knows that you’re right but simply doesn’t want to hear it right now. Is she scared of him? Does she have low self esteem as a result of his behaviour? Does she want to leave but doesn’t know how to?

Leave the dust to settle for a couple of days, then apologise for saying as much as you did and let her know that you are always there for her in whatever way she needs you. He sounds an absolute horror and I’m not surprised your DGS is taking out his anger and hurt on other children as a result.

Thank you all for your overwhelming (unanimous) support and your valuable insights.

Update:
We visited DD1 and family over the weekend. After dinner, DD1 wanted all of us, (SIL1 and both GC etc.), to 'Face Time' DD2, SIL2 and and our other two GC. I had anticipated this and hoped it would be a good opportunity to mend fences and 'break the ice', so to speak.

Thankfully, DD2 acted as if nothing had happened and so did I....which softened any animosity on her part and hurt feelings on mine. It became apparent too, that DD2 didn't share my comments with anyone, including SIL2..... so as far as I can tell, she still hasn't confronted him or said anything about it.

I never mentioned also that DD2 has been planning to visit us with GC at the end of August for one week. She now tells us that (pending his busy work schedule), SIL2 may be accompanying them too, but we won't know for sure until the week before.

I had hoped for the opportunity to have a discreet face to face with DD2 about SIL2's bullying and GS's anger issues. If SIL2 misbehaves in our presence however, I won't be able to contain myself anymore and I dread that there will be nothing discreet or quiet about that.

At this point fingers crossed that our normally happy family reunion doesn't go sideways over one of SIL2's abusive tantrums towards his son.

Once again, thank you for being there and I will do my best to heed all of your kind words and your wisdom....
Best, Willa

Glad you appreciated our posts, Willa, and that all is well between you and DD2.

How do you know that DD2 hasn't confronted SIL2? Was he cruel to GS during the FT session?

"If SIL2 misbehaves in our presence however, I won't be able to contain myself anymore..."

Neither would I. But a simple, "Don't be cruel to/insult/fill in the blank my GS!" might stop SIL2 in his tracks and make him think. I hope so.

Wishing you all the strength and courage you need to continue to deal w/ this issue.

Thanks Starlady,
Face Time session was normal and happy as usual! SIL2 engaged with all of us.

When this whole thing first blew up three years ago, DD1 wouldn't even speak to SIL2 or DD2 and visa versa. They've all 'made up' since then.

When my DH was seriously ill last year, SIL2 flew my daughter out right away. SIL2 also told us how much he loved us and that we were his real family.

I was very angry with him last week but I now recognize that he still needs a lot of help, not more angry retribution on my part.

Having said that, whenever there is an issue with us or our family, he will either become 'sulky' or make himself scarce until it's 'safe'. That's how I know that if DD2 said anything to him at all, she didn't involve me.

Sounds like SIL2 is a good guy, basically. But that doesn't excuse the verbal abuse of his child. Hopefully, DD2 did speak to him and just didn't mention your name (wise, IMO). I hope she keeps on top of this. He may need counseling to help him stop the abuse permanently. But, hopefully, he or she will realize that, themselves, if he has trouble controlling himself.

DD might be able to move things on in a more subtle way rather than challenging OH's behaviour directly, e.g. "We need to find a way to help X through this bullying patch - we don't want it to become a habit - maybe we can help him by boosting his sense of self-worth and making a point of praising him as often as we can each day.- let's see if that helps." And she could model that behaviour and give appropriate reinforcement (a smile maybe!) when her OH gets this right.

Men do not react well to open criticism in my experience!