Girl Guide leader expelled from post.

A girl born with girls' DNA is not the same as a transgender girl. I think the principle of utilitarianism applies here i.e. the greatest happiness of the greatest number. So it's less unfair for the transgender girls to be unprivileged than it is for the DNA girls to be unprivileged.

It would be tough on the transgenders and I'd hope separate arrangements could be made for them. After all it would only be a small, extra ablutions tent : no big deal.

Having been a Brownie, Guide, Ranger Guide and a young leader in Cub Scouts, I can in some ways appreciate this woman's concerns. However, if the child identifies as female I am not sure I can understand her worries, but it may well come down to her beliefs, or lack of understanding of the situation.
What is wrong is the way that it has affected her daughter.
Unfortunately the Guiding and Scouting movement in many ways have forgotten that the people running their groups are doing so voluntarily, unpaid and often have to spend time on training sessions, giving up their own free time and paying for a lot of things out of their own pockets, so while I understand and agree that there has to be regulations to follow, being this heavy handed will not really encourage the future leaders that they are constantly crying out for!

It isn't a fad, sodapop.
There has been a sustained campaign on this, for many years.

The book "Trans Britain - Our Journey from the Shadows" is very informative.
Is is a collection of chapters, mostly by trans people, edited by Christine Burns who is a transwoman.

As I understand it Starlady, the woman's main concern is not her own situation but the fact that GirlGuiding has chosen to disregard safeguarding in favour of including males who claim to be girls or women (adult leaders).

If it's all such a confusing puzzle let's not be so inclusive, at the risk of girls' safety, until a sensible answer has been found.

I do agree Bordersgirl57 why do we take every new fad to such extremes. The concerns of the majorities are ignored often as Cabbie21 said.

But how to solve the problem of boys who identify as girls (and vice versa) while protecting the safety and comfort of those who have always been girls (or boys if the case were vice versa)? That's the dilemma for Girl Guides as for other groups.

It's similar, in a way, to feminist concerns about trans women in women's sports. Men identifying as women, understandably, want to participate in women's sports, but Ive heard that their masculine abilities make it difficult for genetic women to succeed, apparently, and so appear to be setting genetic women back in sports achievements.

The most logical next step in all these cases would be, it seems, to create separate scout/guide groups/sports events for transgender girls/women and transgender boys/men. But then, that would probably be criticized as bigoted and segregationist, even if only intended to ensure everybody's comfort. Very tricky situations. I'm not sure what the eventual solution will be.

No, FarNorth, as I said, I understand what she did. Still, she knew what the consequences would probably be. It was a courageous risk she took, IMO, but still a risk and, no doubt, she knew it.

I suggest that anyone here who has granddaughters should make the children's parents aware that GirlGuiding has this policy.

Bridgeit yes, there was an attempt to solve the problem and the guide leader then appealed the decision, but GirlGuiding stood firm in expelling her.

So it seems her only option is legal action, as her concern is not simply her own removal as a leader but, much more importantly, the safeguarding of girls in GirlGuiding.

There has been no change to legislation Bordersgirl.

There has been inaccurate advice from trans lobby groups, claiming that it is compulsory to include trans people as their chosen sex, in all situations.

There has been 'training' to staff of schools and to youth organisations, from those same trans lobby groups, telling them that a child's decision on what sex to be must be immediately 'affirmed' and that there is no need to notify the child's parents of this.

I think there should be more concern for the majority, ie the girls by birth.
In any case, in my opinion, under 16 is far too young to be acting on self identification as a girl, and assuming rights which put others in a difficult position. They should stay away from all girls groups until they have properly transitioned.
It is wrong that parents are kept in the dark that their daughters may be sharing a room with a person with male attributes, although I do understand about GDPR.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Good post Bordersgirl57.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Should that be - alleviate - I’ve lost the plot,
Better if I had said - Solve the problem ?

To elevate

Was she just expelled without any conversation, or an attempt toelevate concerns?

Far north wasn’t separate in my granddaughter case they all shared a dormitory I m sure there was an adult present and there were no problems

I would be willing to guarantee that there would be no trouble.

That is astonishing Gonegirl. What insight you must have.

There are loads of girls in the Scouts these days anyway. Alright, sleeping and toilet facilities are separate, but still.

But still. The point is that there will be no separate sleeping and toilet facilities as everyone is 'female'.

What about compassion for girls who are in care after being forced into underage sex work and become "hypersexual" in male company, so cannot join scouts while in recovery from the abuse? But could "be kids" in brownies. Or used to.

What about girls whose strict religous families give them prescious little freedoms, says no to school residentials etc because they were mixed, but did allow them to have some rare freedom with brownies. Or used to. Not any more. Because Brownies are refusing to tell parents which troops and trips have boys included 'cause selfID.

What about compassion for girls who are forced to share washing areas with a boy ?

In scouts mixed groups are treated a MIXED GROUPS with all the associated precautions (enough single sex privacy for certain things like showering etc)

The point is that brownies ARE NOT RISK ASSESSING as a mixed group when they allow boys in under "self ID". They are not informing parents that they children are going on a mixed rather than single sex camp.

So you cannot compare mixed scouts groups to brownies letting boys self ID as girls!!

There are girls whose parents/carers specifically put them in brownies not scouts for the single sex element for various reasons and these families ARE NOT BEING TOLD when a group is mixed with self ID boys

This is talking about a young person. I would be willing to guarantee that there would be no trouble.

That young person is already in a stressful situation. Why would he/she want to make it worse?

Don't judge this from an adult's point of view. Have a bit of compassion.

All this self ID rubbish is causing a problem for women who value their privacy, modesty and security in certain situations.

I'd resign if I had to take a boy away camping with teenage girls. I imagine most people would have concerns.

Women fought long and hard to gain the rights we have today. Our voices shouldn't be drowned out now by PC voices telling us that a person with a penis and pair of bollocks is OK in female changing rooms or in any place where only women gather.

We won the right the object to practices imposed upon us.