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Girl Guide leader expelled from post.

(190 Posts)
FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 15:01:02

A Girl Guide leader was expelled from her post for objecting to Guide policy that boys who identify as girls are accepted as being female in all circumstances, including shared sleeping and washing arrangements on Guide camps.

Do you think Guides are correct to have this policy?

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 15:01:25

Cherrytree59 Sun 04-Aug-19 15:21:11

Another day another loony idea.angry

The girl guide leader is doing her job.
She has a duty of care whilst in loco parentis.

If this continues no longer will there be a Guide, Scouts or similar movement willing to take children or young people to camp.sad

I'm sure if things continue along this crazy path there will soon be a shortage of willing volunteers.sad

Parents will no longer allow their children or youngsters to go on camping trips etc.sad

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 15:29:34

The ex-leader is considered to be such a persona-non-grata that her 5 year old daughter cannot join Rainbows.

"But this has had an effect not just on me. My 5 year old daughter cannot join Rainbows because of the withdrawal of my membership. She talks about wanting to go on Rainbow sleepovers and I am not allowed to accompany her to any meetings, outings, or residentials."

(It is normal for parents to accompany Rainbows)

sodapop Sun 04-Aug-19 15:36:31

Yes I agree Cherrytree59 It's difficult enough finding volunteers without them being subjected to upholding these policies.
I'm sure parents will be watching developments with concern, I know I would be.
It will be a great shame if the Scouting movement is adversely affected by all this.

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 15:59:26

There is a crowdfunder to help the expelled leader challenge GirlGuiding on this, in court.

Jane10 Sun 04-Aug-19 16:11:18

I might contribute to that. Poor woman. What a ridiculous situation.

Starlady Sun 04-Aug-19 16:31:52

Well, she did more than just "object," she knowingly broke the rules, according to the article. I understand why, and I feel badly for her child. But this was the risk she took.

IMO, a policy like this should not have been implemented w/o canvassing all the parents/all the troops and seeing how everybody felt about it. This is a very sensitive issue both for transgenders and their families and other kids and their families. These are the kinds of situations that arise when officials just force things on people.

NanaandGrampy Sun 04-Aug-19 16:33:29

The world has gone nuts!

I was a girl guide throughout my childhood and one of the benefits was no boys. It was really that simple.

This is equality gone crazy.

Septimia Sun 04-Aug-19 17:02:39

I was in the Guide movement from the age of 7 through to my 20s. I agree with NanaandGrampy, one benefit was no boys!

Most of the time, too, the Guides were better at things than the Scouts, although as girls got more adventurous they found the Scouts catered better for some things, I think.

As for boys identifying as girls and sharing facilties, I think Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are too young to cope with this. It's not fair to expect them to, although it is a bit unfair on genuinely female-identifying boys. However, as they get older it's perhaps a different matter.

I'm with the Guide leader on this one.

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 17:03:44

Starlady you think she should have made her objection known, then carried on 'just following orders' while disregarding the risk to child safety?

(Presumably that is what other Guide, Brownie, Rainbow leaders are doing - without even objecting.)

BlueBelle Sun 04-Aug-19 17:12:56

My granddaughter was a scout and at times they all slept in dormitories together when on trips

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 17:15:38

While being fully aware of who were girls and who were boys, right *BlueBelle"?

Anniebach Sun 04-Aug-19 17:16:40

When I was a cub mistress we would have jamborees with all cubs and brownies in the county, cubs and brownies were not even allowed to share a coach.

Gonegirl Sun 04-Aug-19 17:24:13

Oh that is such rubbish. If she identifies as a girl she's not going to cause any harm. There are loads of girls in the Scouts these days anyway. Alright, sleeping and toilet facilities are separate, but still.

She is a narrow minded, old-fashioned woman, with not enough empathy to be in charge of the young.

Day6 Sun 04-Aug-19 17:53:47

All this self ID rubbish is causing a problem for women who value their privacy, modesty and security in certain situations.

I'd resign if I had to take a boy away camping with teenage girls. I imagine most people would have concerns.

Women fought long and hard to gain the rights we have today. Our voices shouldn't be drowned out now by PC voices telling us that a person with a penis and pair of bollocks is OK in female changing rooms or in any place where only women gather.

We won the right the object to practices imposed upon us.

Gonegirl Sun 04-Aug-19 17:58:22

This is talking about a young person. I would be willing to guarantee that there would be no trouble.

That young person is already in a stressful situation. Why would he/she want to make it worse?

Don't judge this from an adult's point of view. Have a bit of compassion.

notanan2 Sun 04-Aug-19 18:11:37

In scouts mixed groups are treated a MIXED GROUPS with all the associated precautions (enough single sex privacy for certain things like showering etc)

The point is that brownies ARE NOT RISK ASSESSING as a mixed group when they allow boys in under "self ID". They are not informing parents that they children are going on a mixed rather than single sex camp.

So you cannot compare mixed scouts groups to brownies letting boys self ID as girls!!

There are girls whose parents/carers specifically put them in brownies not scouts for the single sex element for various reasons and these families ARE NOT BEING TOLD when a group is mixed with self ID boys

Anniebach Sun 04-Aug-19 18:14:34

What about compassion for girls who are forced to share washing areas with a boy ?

notanan2 Sun 04-Aug-19 18:20:00

What about compassion for girls who are in care after being forced into underage sex work and become "hypersexual" in male company, so cannot join scouts while in recovery from the abuse? But could "be kids" in brownies. Or used to.

What about girls whose strict religous families give them prescious little freedoms, says no to school residentials etc because they were mixed, but did allow them to have some rare freedom with brownies. Or used to. Not any more. Because Brownies are refusing to tell parents which troops and trips have boys included 'cause selfID.

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 18:47:34

There are loads of girls in the Scouts these days anyway. Alright, sleeping and toilet facilities are separate, but still.

But still. The point is that there will be no separate sleeping and toilet facilities as everyone is 'female'.

FarNorth Sun 04-Aug-19 18:49:37

I would be willing to guarantee that there would be no trouble.

That is astonishing Gonegirl. What insight you must have.

BlueBelle Sun 04-Aug-19 19:33:57

Far north wasn’t separate in my granddaughter case they all shared a dormitory I m sure there was an adult present and there were no problems

Bridgeit Sun 04-Aug-19 19:48:17

Was she just expelled without any conversation, or an attempt toelevate concerns?

Bridgeit Sun 04-Aug-19 19:48:42

To elevate