Tolerant or Intolerant?

I took the initial post to mean that people who seem to set out to bully and belittle others are unlikely to be happy in their own skin. If you are truly happy and confident you don’t need to prove it to people you don’t know personally. The majority on here are kind and helpful and can disagree without being objectionable.

I wonder if some of the aggressive posters have alienated their real life friends.

We have no way of knowing if posters have severe mental problems or are bipolar - just have to address the thread as we see fit.

I have to say Bradford that there's a certain ironic hostility in your OP by indicating that feisty or argumentative posters have mental health problems!

There are plenty of non-contentious threads for those looking for support or a bit of fun.

There are those who hold valid opinions which are diametrically opposed to the opinions of others and feel they are worth defending, with facts and logical deductions, and there are those who could start a fight in an empty room, just by entering it.

Before replying sharply to a poster (or before getting upset by a sharp reply) it is better to take a moment to consider whether the reply is against the opinion or against the poster and whether logic or blind fury has prompted it. Whichever it is, reply firmly but politely. If it was a logical rebuttal, remember that it is just possible that the other poster is right, whatever your original post. If it is emotional and illogical - don't pour oil on the flames by adding your own anger, better to let them cool a bit by waiting ten minutes before replying!

Fighting purely for the sake of verbally defeating someone is a game in itself - only play if you enjoy the skirmish. Choose your battles.

I am passionate about the Independence of my country my anti royalty views and one or two other things ,that doesn't make me "mentally ill" or have no life. My opinion is every bit as valid as anyone elses I have been accused of having a sad life by someone here before.It would however be a very sad world if we all shared the same views ,had the same opinions and came here to pat each others backs and say here here .What would be the point of a group for non discussion?There are one or two posters I try to avoid because I know how it will go ,sometimes I think they wait for my posts because sure as fate they pop up right away to set me straight .
If I wanted to be in a knitting circle and discuss patterns or grandchildren or the weather then thats where I'd be .I had no idea thats what some thought this site should be until recently.I have seen some fab ,feisty people with strong opinions be pushed off the site because of others who think their opinions are more important .Thats bullying in the real world ..and its bullying on here .

So you are now "othering" those who don't agree as a group you call "aggressive" while ignoring your own aggression towards others. You then go on with the usual trick of making them "less than" in some way just as Jews were heaped together as "avaricious" and people of colour as "not so bright" among the other awful things that trip off some people's tongues or pens.

In this case, to make those you have decided to attack "less than", you have decided they are not "happy and confident", they have "severe mental problems or are bipolar" ... and you think you are the ones who should sit in judgement on the behaviour of others or rather the group you have "othered". Those who, are only actually a group because, from time to time, the disagree with your point of view. Let's face it, your "othered" group are not those who share your view - are they?

I first came on this site a few years ago looking for tips on long distance grandparenting. I took great comfort from the replies I received and since then have enjoyed many of the lighthearted threads. However, I steer clear of anything too serious or political as it can soon become very unpleasant. I think arguing without seeing body language, facial expression or hearing tone of voice can cause misunderstandings.

I'm much more concerned by the opposite problem. Somebody posts about a situation caused by their own unwise decisions, bad attitude or behaviour. I think 'What an idiot!'

They are then swamped by sympathetic, supportive, reassuring replies from those 'on their side'. It's sickening!

I just can't believe that nobody seems to want to point out the obvious error of their ways or disagree with them.

I believe that's so unhelpful. How will they ever learn to have insight with all this validation?

I've seen plenty of threads where the OP's contribution to their problem has been pointed out.
Sometimes they even say it's helped them to see things in a new light.

We can only take what's posted here, at face value.
If someone seems rude maybe they have some sort of problem, maybe their idea of robust is my idea of rude, or maybe they are just plain rude.
I hope that I don't come across as rude, to other GNers, when I believe I am simply stating and backing up my views.

How often (regularly) do we get threads lamenting the quality or otherwise of other threads?
At the risk of being controversial , is one not allowed to respond honestly especially where one has strong feelings?
Many’s the time I have simply ignored a thread or OP because I just don’t think it is worth the hassle, but sometimes I don’t see why I should contribute to the “silence indicates assent” philosophy.
Sowing seeds of dissent? I wonder.
Without dissent there would be little discussion, let alone argument.
That said, this is precisely the sort of OP to generate more heat and wrangling.

I don't know anything about sewing seeds but I do follow someone on Twitter who, amazingly, crochets into and around leaves. I'd love to know how she does it without tearing them.

Now, now Baggs

Baggs
I love a 'crafty' challenge - I might have to try that one! I'm thinking of C decorations, with some holly leaves crocheted around in silver or gold thread, .

Sorry for the deviation from the OP, folks.

That's a useful expansion of a previous point, imo.

Good response Elegran I agree it’s always preferable to play the ball, not the man.

We can debate politely and then I usually say ‘we will have to agree to disagree’ which is what I (very occasionally thankfully) have learned to say in RL.

We all have an opinion. Each is valid and personal. GN threads would be pretty bland if we all felt the same!

Let’s just keep it polite eh?

Seems like a good move when people set out deliberately to inflame a situation that seems at the moment to be reasonably calm on the forum, MamaCaz.

I can't say I would get excited about crocheting around leaves - although I do enjoy crochet in general. I'm hoping to find time to do some Christmas decorations - ITh gingers probably - on my embroidery machine but I need to make elf on a shelf jumpers first as they have to go to Australia. I then need to think of some items to make to add to the Night Before Christmas bag I sent last year. At some point I want to play with the overlocker I got for my birthday last week and keep finishing the UFOs in the list I set myself at the beginning of the year although I have managed to finish the quilt top I started in 2014! Just the quilting to do now. That was all hand embroidered so a nice change. Then there is the "do I have a party on Christmas Eve" question?, and the "will I be in this house" question (it's on the market).

It's not going off topic that's the issue MamaCaz it's the "C" word that sets my mind racing - but in a good way.

Let’s just keep it polite eh?

How disappointing UG. Still someone who feels the need to tell others what to do.

Oh, I am with UG, let's keep it polite, and I have said so many times on many threads. There is no need to carry the attack to the poster to make a valid point. In fact, doing so is tantamount to admitting defeat.

I read Urmstongran comment as a suggestion rather than an instruction ‘telling others what to do’. The question mark rather indicated that, in my opinion of course!

take a moment to consider whether the reply is against the opinion or against the poster
Precisely Elegran.

It's nothing at to do with stopping a diversity of opinion, that, in fact, is the most interesting part of the forum.

It's about understanding why people are needlessly nasty and hurtful.

And the original post came from two situations.

First: in my elders group, those with dementia and who have survived strokes are often forgetful and argumentative and are roundly condemned by many. It caused a real kerfuffle just recently and it set me thinking.

We wouldn't condemn someone with a broken leg for not running, so why do we blame people who cannot think clearly or rationally? As these elders cannot.

And the second prong of the pitchfork was the thought that whilst I didn't condemn the elders whom I know and love, I had certainly done so here and in the terms described in the OP. And regret doing so.

At first I wrote a, 'let's all be forgiving and understanding' post and it sounded sanctimonious. Then a flippan one but this isn't really a flippant subject.

So what you got is a reflection of some of the things said, either in the forum or PMs by me and others.
I didn't expect it to please everyone

The essence of it is still, 'we don't know what people are going through which makes them act like this, so please have a little understanding'.

But the reaction to that is yours to choose - and long may it be so.

Of course, there is no way of knowing what the people on the receiving end of cutting, nasty comments might be going through, either.

I well remember being told I must have a very sad life by the forum equivalent of a tag team.. I wasn't being contentious; it wasn't a politics thread.

They were right, my life was unbearably sad at the time..

Very good points Bradfordlass.

Nobody knows for sure what is behind people’s posts!

Main problem, imo, is other posters jumping in too quickly to responses to an original post. Being unable to edit doesn’t help! You may fire something off and then think “that isn’t exactly what I mean”. But.. it’s gone! Then there is “tone”. Some people will read comments completely differently to what is intended as there are no facial expressions or audible tone. They then take umbrage and before you know it the thread becomes heated with accusers and defenders. Everyone wants to be “right”.

Personally I keep posting but not sure if I actually like Gransnet. So not even sure what MY intentions are being here? I guess I hope some of my comments are useful? Perhaps not. I used to be on a forum years ago - no longer around. Now THAT did get heated but more in a debate kind of way. I liked it. What does that say about me?

I do know that as I’ve aged I have a heck of a lot more tolerance as have experienced life and realize that things (people) are not always as they seem! The deeper you dig the more you discover.

Anyway bit ‘deep’ for a bright Sunday morning. Happy Sunday everyone.

Sorry Bradfordlass. Just to add yes I agree sometimes people may have MH problems but some may just be having a bad day!

Hmm! Lots of issues/ point of view aren't there? I think that sometimes it's all too easy to think that a poster is being rude because there is no tone of voice, so a message that can be meant kindly is thought of as being just the opposite. We also have different points of view or different experiences that naturally mean responses are different.
For example I often draw on my work experiences when answering any question . I found that often what I was being told by a customer and then had to investigate would be challenged by me after new information came to light. I am not saying the customer was lying ( although some were very economical with the truth!) but that perceptions of any situation were different. So yes, I do sometimes query what is going on or offer a different point of view.
I was , by the way, noted for my patience and negotiation skills at work ! Even so I did sometimes want to explode.
I think as long as we can be respectful then reasoned debate helps us all.

Hope that was ok for everyone?

C