What to Do For The Best??

Nannamilly1, I haven't replied until now as I instantly disliked your attitude towards your daughter. It showed deep disrespect for another adult. I'm surprised that anyone would want to talk about their daughter like that. i just hope that you don't say these things to her face!

The way I see it? Some people are lucky and have an easy life. Others are unfortunate. It's just too easy to victim-blame. Why do women get blamed (even by their mothers) and not the unreliable men who desert them?

Who do I feel sorry for? The 'sensible', cautious ones who never, ever, take a chance, never trust - and fail to live a life at all!

Hello NannaMilly1
I can identify with the issues and you have not done anything wrong although looking for reasons often mean we question ourselves - particularly the feeling of worry , disappointment at the rejection of what we regard as sensible decent values as well as feeling helpless in terms of getting our errant offspring back on track. However your daughter has made choices which have impacted upon her present and future life choices and life style. She might have a few mental health problems, even if these are hidden from you, as promiscuity can be a sign of depression and low self esteem, particularly if she is aware that her life style does not meet the family's expectations. There is no obvious way to make her more responsible, deep down she probably already knows she is being irresponsible. The only suggestion I can give is try not to be a 'facilitator' - you will want to help and offer guidance but say to yourself, am I facilitating this continuous pattern of behaviour. It is very difficult not to judge but sometimes the help offered can be aimed at promoting responsibility. if she has money worries, try to help her by setting up payment plans with her creditors rather than offering to pay off her debts, try to have a baby sitting pattern that supports her working rather than socialising. Encourage her to attend parenting classes and encourage her to get some qualifications, there is some support for single mothers to go to university or train for a career, if she can be motivated to do so, as there is no point getting in to student debt unless she will stick at the course, support her in her efforts to sort herself out - you can not do everything for her no matter how much you worry.

When the time is right it would be good for this young woman to have a chance to make something of her life and train for something she could commit to. This way her chances of earning a better wage are increased. Maybe when the children are at school/nursery. It is probable that her self esteem is low and is boosted by short lived affairs. As well as counselling as has been suggested it would be good for her to find a group that can help her build confidence. Anything that helps her grow as a person will have a positive impact for her children. It seems as well as supporting your grandchildren you may need to play a role in supporting your daughter to find positive support too. She is still young and can make something good with her life. Best wishes

Daisymae said ... You don't condone her behaviour yet you facilitate it by constantly having her children so that she can be footloose. I wonder if it time to pull back and let her shoulder the responsibility. She has made her choices.

I agree with Daisymae ... you are facilitating your daughter's behaviour. She is the mother of two young boys, and needs to act more responsibly. I can understand that what you are doing, you are doing out of love for your daughter and grandchildren, but it's really not helping in the long run.

You loan her money, bail her out when she's in trouble, and have the grandchildren most weekends to enable her to go out and behave promiscuously. She now finds herself in this difficult situation, and no doubt thinks that mum will come to the rescue and make it all alright again.

Adult child, or not, I'd be having a serious talk with her and leave her in doubt that whilst I love her very much, and I will always be here for her, but I am very disappointed with the way she conducts her life, and the situation she now finds herself in. I'd tell her that's it's time she grew up, and acted like a responsible mother, as those two little boys deserve better.

I'd support her with whatever decision she makes about the pregnancy, but I'd tell her in no uncertain terms that things need to change. It is not your responsibility to continually bail out your daughter ... when will it all end? Probably never, if you continue to do it ...

I really feel for your situation. My Stepson is 27 and has three children aged 8, 5 and 3. The eldest is actually not his biological child, but he came into her life when she was 15 months old and she sees him as her father and we love her as our own.

He and the children’s mother had a very acrimonious split almost two years ago and for five months we and he were prevented from seeing the children. This was eventually sorted out through the Court.

My Stepson loves the children but is basically lazy and when the children come 95% of their care is down to me no matter what I do to persuade/force/encourage him to step up to the plate. Their mother is a disgrace and is constantly at the attention of Social Services for neglect.

The problem is that the children are stuck in the middle. The 8 year old has provided the majority of the care for her siblings since they were born. Whilst she loves them dearly and all three are very close, it breaks my heart that she has been putting them to bed etc since she was about 5.

The children end up being stuck in the middle and so trying to force adult children to step up to the plate as you remove the safety net is easier said than done. I completely understand your dilemma and situation. Having had the children every other weekend for the whole weekend since things were resolved through Court has been lovely but exhausting as DH and I both work full time (especially as DH only gets seven weekends off a year). We have just said to my Stepson that we will only be having the children once a month and he has to have the children at his ex’s the other weekends.

We had to do it, we were getting so run down, but it will fall on my poor eldest granddaughter to look after her siblings, so not an easy step at all.

I have no real advice to offer, just wanted to offer my support for your situation and pass on my best wishes. I really hope things work out for you ?

It is all so hard. I have 6 children and 8 grandchildren. All but one are just lovely. But one of our sons is now in jail after going down the path of drugs and alcohol. They were all raised the same, same values etc but for some reason, some people just choose the wrong path. I have tried not to blame myself and not go over what I could have done differently etc. None of my either children will have anything to do with him which I quite understand.

Sometimes you have to be tough and let them go. Both you and she need counselling but different reasons. You have done all that you can for her and the children. I can tell you honestly that this never ends unless you put something into place for yourself. Sending you my warmest thoughts. It is such a difficult thing to do to tell your children enough is enough

Tartlet Faced with a tragedy like yours, you are in a very different situation to the OP. Nothing has been said to suggest that her daughter has suffered major trauma or is mentally or physically ill.

What OP has done is what every loving parent wants to do and that is help their child in a crisis. But sometimes what starts as crisis help becomes a prop that enables a child to avoid the negative effects of the unsuitable life style they are leading and at that point, then it is sensible for the parents to withdraw the support that is enabling that inapproriate behaviour, whatever its form.

Both our children have faced health crisises that could have ended up with us having to provide them with essential ongoing support, which we would willingly have done. But that is very different to supporting them indefinitely when their problems are entirely self-inflicted.

It’s so hard. I sometimes wonder if we support them too much and they expect that we always will, whereas if we had not they might have been forced to take care of themselves more. BUT, what parent would stand there and not help, if they were able to? I feel your pain and can only offer sympathy.

I don't think helping a 22 year old woman gently on the way to behaving like an adult is tough love.
Its necessary, natural, and the kindest thing to do.

Your daughter is playing Russian roulette with her own health if she’s not using condoms. HIV and STD’s are still pretty common and she needs to start thinking about that. Maybe this is the wake up call she needs.
You sound like a wonderful mum

Sorry, I was replying to Monica.

Yes, I agree but I think few parents would give unlimited and unconditional support, even those of us other people might consider to be foolish enablers. My guiding principle is whether a refusal to help would be likely to have a negative impact on the children.

My daughter, who received abundant support from us for many years because of mental health issues stemming from a horrific act done to her when she was in her late teens, is completely unwilling to provide any kind and level of support for her own daughter. She regards that as tough love. I think she just doesn’t care.

A woman of 22 isn’t a kid. Most women married and had children in their early 20s when I was young. I had 3 by the time I was 26 and was not unusual. Bustertank No one said it was kids bringing up kids.

How tough you can be will always depend on the circumstances. But sometimes just standing back and thinking about it helps. I think Schnauzer1 sums up how you implement a more robust attitude to a child who relies on parents sorting and paying for all her problems.

I feel for you, helping adult children is difficult! My dd who is 45 and has borderline personality disorder and diabetes moved in with me at exactly the same time as my husband died 3 months ago. She has brought many pets with her and all her financial woes! I used to help her with money but the bank of mummy has now closed. She keeps putting off getting a job.
Would your daughter consider a tubal ligation after this baby is born?

I'm in the tough love camp.

Wow, what incentive does your daughter have to change. You are handing everything to her on a plate.

Sit down with your daughter and work out a monthly budget. Set down the things you are prepared to help her with. For example buy all the boys shoes (a big expense for any mother) and a few agreed groceries each week when you do your own shopping, and that is all. This will help her financially and put a ceiling on what you will be spending. If she can learn to pay her own way that will be an achievement that might spur her on to improve other things in her life. But you must stick to the rules you set down, no giving in or it won't work.

AND, why does your daughter get every weekend off ? You need time off too. Taking the boys every 2nd weekend is more than enough. What good will you be to her if you run yourself into the ground ?

Why would your daughter need to worry about bringing more children into the world when the bank of mum and dad are there to pay and babysit.

Sorry to be harsh but you are facilitating you daughters lifestyle. Giving someone everything they ask for teaches them nothing.

You did want honesty. Tough is what's needed.

Monica, I don’t disagree and what you describe is pretty much what I try to practise but my own experience has shown that that’s not what most people seem to mean by tough love. Many people see to see tough love as not providing help at all. Abandonment really.

It’s hard to make sure children have everything they need if no financial help is ever given because needs involve things like warmth and what I’d consider the basic utilities. Yes, the parent should budget for these and control their spending but what if they don’t? People who find managing their money difficult find it especially difficult if they suddenly find themselves living at basic universal credit level.

My first thought was personality disorder, I see others have mentioned this too. If this is the case then nothing you can do or say will make any difference but just be there for the 2 boys she has and whether she keeps the baby is really her shout. I think once you accept that you can't change her and no amount of psychological intervention will either then it will be easier for you. I have experience of this and while I was trying to rescue the person it really affected my health for many years. It must be harder for you as there are children involved. Could you get some councilling for yourself to talk through all this, it may help. Look after yourself xx

Thank you all again for your posts. I have taken a lot from everyone’s opinions and advice and can see that by continuing to bail her out all the time I am merely allowing her to continue with no excuse or reason to change. For this reason I have tried to gently pull back a little but I do find it hard....

I appreciate the psychology behind every situation and I can see how my childhood may have influenced my own type of mothering. My mother was cold and unemotional and has never been supportive and there has been a lot of dysfunction within our family. I have always been determined to not be a replica of my own mother and to be someone different and loving and supportive to my children and my family through thick and thin. This has been my drive throughout life always striving to better myself in order to give my family a better life.

In all, I appreciate there needs to be a balance but in reality this never cut and dried. It’s good to listen and share a problem with others. You know what they say.. a problem shared ... x

Tartlet Tough love does not necessarily mean pulling the carpet out from under the troubled child, but just not being too quick to help, and to be thoughtful and selective about the help you do give.

At the end of the day we cannot live other people's lives for them and as hard as it is to see others make mistakes sometimes advise is very unwelcome. Support the grandchildren but don't lend money or buy for your daughter as she has to learn to budget herself. Just make sure the children have everything

I stand by my factual based opinion - also happy for you to have your guestimate too... Let's assume we all only wish to help this lady who obviously has done her very best! - I sit with her in her anguish, and offer factual help - it's not going to resolve the situation avoiding the elephant in the room. Honestly I've been blunt, but why waste this good lady's time when I can see a clear and fast route (my cptsd etc suggestions)?

Read my previous posts again, but this time imagine I'm totally in earnest wanting to help.

I’m wondering how many of the posters who are advising tough love have actually used the tough love approach in a situation similar to Nanamilly1’s?

I fully understand the logic behind tough love but, having found myself in similar situation situations with my younger daughter and now her daughter, I can only say that I’ve found it impossible to adopt a tough love approach. When young children are involved, tough love is at odds with the need to make sure the children are supported and cared for both physically and emotionally.

The best I’ve been to allow myself to do is some minor distancing and being a bit less proactive in offering support. My granddaughter continues to make bad decisions but has three beautiful young children she loves dearly but struggles to cope with on her own so I feel doomed to continue to be involved in her life more than I would like for the sake of the children. Fortunately both the paternal grandparents help with the physical support aspects but that can sometimes be a mixed blessing because I often find myself pig in the middle during the many recurring issues. The father is still in the picture too but is able to provide very limited financial support.

Good grief, ananimous how clever you must be to produce a diagnosis of childhood trauma and abuse from an account by a mother of sticking by her daughter through thick and thin - without ever setting eyes on the daughter, mother or the (presumably) abusive grandparents !

That the mother's instinctive support may have enabled her daughter to continue being immature into her adult life is a different matter entirely and I agree with those posters who have said that she needs to back off a little and let her daughter cope with the results of her decisions and actions, while staying on the horizon to help with some aspects of her life.

That was a very nice last response of yours Nannamilly1 ... I think you are a wonderful mother and grandmother and I hope those boys (and any new grandchild should your daughter decide against a termination) continue to grow up with you as a role model. I realise you are worried but I have confidence in you!