My DD has just turned up on our doorstep...

Have just read Tillybelle's input which I thought was very well based (she writes with professional experience) and gave a balanced view with some helpful advice.

However, I would be less than happy to think that my daughter was being bullied on a daily basis and may struggle to keep my views to myself but I appreciate that may not (initially, anyway) be the way to react. Tillybelle's advice is probably spot on.

When life is hard we all instinctively seek the comfort of being with those that love us. Perhaps she just need your presence and gentle guidance whilst she finds her own solution.

I think you being there for her, is the best thing, if he is as critical as your DH says, then that's not a good environment for your DD or grandchildren X

I ‘love’ the last 4 comments, typical MN/GN comments to a thread they haven’t read!

No more comments are needed!

Welbeck above is wise. As her mom, no matter how hard you try, you are biased. She is an adult, wife and mother. Tell her you have faith in her ability to work this thru with her husband then support her resolution. No warm bath or cozy bed, she can face her realities at home. The only exception is if you truly believe she or her child is in immediate danger. Then, call the police.

I agree with Juliet27 Fri 17-Jan-20 10:39:00

It does sound more than a minor tiff and your daughter may have some serious thinking to do. If her character has changed because of her husband's criticisms and behaviour, she is probably suffering abuse ( not necessarily anything physical) and should consider counseling and finding a way to address the situation with her husband. If she stays with him out of habit or in a spirit of resignation, I doubt she'll be happy.
You can't tell her what to do but can support her to make sure she feels in control and makes the right decision.
I'm sure you'll be a fantastic support to her and your grandson whatever she decides.

What a cold hearted view of your “DD’s” unenviable’s position. How about “ my poor daughter had had to leave her abusive husband for the sake of herself and my grandchild and I’m whole heartedly supporting them.” You want sympathy and advice? I feel sorry for your poor daughter coming to live with you.

Thanks so much for all the advice I had. I did manage to keep my opinions to myself throughout the morning. She has returned home after a phone call this lunchtime. (She is quite a nasty girl herself when I was listening with a neutral heart?)
I do think that it will be ok but I have sent her home with a promise that I will always be there for her and a promise from her that she will try to stick up for herself if he is being unnecessarily critical, preferably without the nasty edge she presented this morning.
I will let her know about some of the things Tillybelle said so she is keeping control more.

As someone who did exactly what your daughter has done, I would be as sympathetic and calm as possible; accommodate her and her son over the weekend if possible, encourage her to talk, listen to her but try to avoid offering any advice at this stage. Your daughter sounds exhausted and in need of a refuge or simply a break; she is contact with her husband so matters may resolve themselves over the weekend. She does need to check on access to her home and possessions, (locks can be changed) perhaps her father could accompany her while she does this, and on joint bank accounts etc.
Depending on what transpires over the weekend, if matters are not resolved she needs to get legal advice about her position and options.
A very unhappy situation, but try to be as non-committal as possible at the moment and encourage her to come to her own conclusions about what she needs to do.

Very good advice to stay neutral, but supportive. When similar happened to me, however, girlfriend of my son turned up in a right state after a huge fight, I did what you absolutely should not do and laid into him! Fortunately, it all worked out and they’re now fine. As he is with me. My big mouth does run away from my brain at times. Hopefully, it doesn’t happen again. But if does, this time I will remain calm!

Tillybelle

Thanks for all of that Information I sincerely hope I never have to use any of it.

As your daughter has asked what you thought of your son in law then maybe things haven't been right between them for a while and she was wanting reassurance that it wasn't just her thinking his criticism of was wrong but you need to be careful what you say because if she is in a controlling marriage and she does get back with her hubby, he may stop contact between you/DiL/GS if he doesnt like what you've said, hope it all works out for the best

Scentia, you've seen first hand the critical way that Sil speaks to your daughter, browbeating her so she has to keep trying to defend herself.
You husband says that he has noticed the Sil has always been like this and that's why he doesn't like him.
You also say that she seems like a different person than the strong young woman she used to be.
Now your daughter has appeared at your door with her young son.
It seems to me that your daughter is being mentally abused, at the very least.
You say that you don't want to get involved but you are involved, your daughter just arrived on your doorstep with you grandson, so you're involved already.
Let your daughter know that you are 100% behind her and that she is welcome to stay with you as long as she wants to do.
I'm sorry to say but if the above description was about my daughter's life, I would be doing anything I could to keep her away from this man who is destroying her confidence and possibly her mental health.

luluaugust. Thanks. I have been heavily taken apart in the past when a rather serious situation was being covered and I advised, among many other things, on how to be safe if the need arose.
I appreciate you telling me what you think.

Scentia.

About what you said;
Don't worry:
"I did say I thought he was a very critical of her and now I regret saying that as I am sure when it gets sorted she will tell him what I said."
You told the truth. If he ever comes to you and tries to start a row about it or is nasty to you over it, simply use the technique I mentioned earlier: Plus these... Don't argue. Don't explain. Don't apologise Don't discuss.
Use a few short words to cover it and repeat them every time he tries to talk about it: Maybe "I spoke the truth. I simply stated what I had observed." Ignore any personal remarks he makes or any attempts to argue or change the subject, e.g. to that it was none of your business. Simply repeat the two sentences or whatever it is you have decided to say.

Don't worry! You are a good person! You are doing fine! I do hope today has brought some positive feelings or at least that your daughter feels stronger.

tillybelle I think if I was in this situation I would be pleased to have all the info to think about.

P.S. Oh no it's me again! Sorry!

People will quite probably think I have taken a rather serious and "heavy" view of the situation and that it may not warrant anything as bad as that. I sincerely hope it does not! My background has given me the knowledge that I feel I ought to pass on in case it it needed. Some of what I say - like don't get involved in petty arguments but just say a few neutral words, is relevant whatever the situation.

I am aware that this might be a "storm in a tea-cup". But my experience has taught me to give people the full first aid kit in case they need it, if you see what I mean. It's better to have the knowledge and not need to use it than to need help and not know what to do.

Thanks for putting up with me! Best wishes to anyone in this kind of painful situation.

Scentia. I am so sorry. This is a terrible situation for you to be in. I do agree with everyone who says you are right not to get involved but to be there for your daughter so she has a safe place and person to whom to turn.

Unfortunately we do not know exactly what goes on in a home and a relationship. I hid my extreme distress from my parents at the way my husband treated me for many years. I feel inclined to say that your daughter will get nowhere while she feels she is "having to defend herself all the time".
Criticism is the first of John Gottman’s famous 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse', which predict divorce with more than 90% accuracy.
My advice to your daughter, from experience and from giving Counselling would be to stop being on the defensive. Realise he is always criticising, realise that he gets some kind of 'kick' out of putting her down. If possible she would benefit from not feeling like the victim and simply by replying calmly, "I'm sorry that's your view. You may be right, you may be wrong." and do not say anything else. Just repeat those words if necessary.

You may need to try and help your daughter to feel strong and that she is not the helpless person she feels she is at the moment. He has worn her down with constant criticism. Your words "she seems like a different person than the strong young woman we raised." triggered alarm bells in me. You have seen the change in her. She has lost self-esteem and has been crushed. Her extreme change is not due to mere disagreements and criticisms, he is attacking her on a very deep level, undermining her very self-belief, her inner strength. This happens when a person is systematically bullied in a certain way, repeatedly not allowed to be themselves, derided, denounced, humiliated, made to feel they cannot do anything properly. They try harder and harder to please and all the time it is thrown back in their face, sneeringly and cruelly. All in the privacy of the home. In public he remains "That nice man". I suspect this is the case for your daughter. I am all the more convinced because you feel that regarding the issue that caused her to leave, "it is a row about something so silly". It is always "something so silly" to anyone who does not know what these cruel people are like and the issues they pick on. Trying to explain what it is like being with them is so difficult! You say "Nothing I do is right for him." and people say "Then why does he stay with you/you with him?" but it isn't possible to get away and he stays because he likes tormenting you, it is his favourite hobby, the driving force of his life, to see you squirm, try to explain, try to please him, try to put it right... to see your fear.

It would be wise to get legal advice since he has effectively driven her from her rightful home. It is time for your daughter to learn where she stands and to feel in control of her own life and that of her son. She needs to recognise she has rights and that those rights begin with not being subjected to an atmosphere of constant criticism in her own home.

As her mother, you will be feeling so upset for her and often so helpless, Scentia, but do not under estimate the importance of your quietly solid supportive role at this crucial time in your daughter's life. Just by being there, as calm as you can be, listening, soothing, supporting, strengthening her. Your DH has recognised how critical this man is for a long time. The criticisms will not stop, believe me, he enjoys them, dishing out the put-downs makes him feel powerful. I lived with it for 23 years. It wears you down so much that you have no life left in you, you become a hollow ghost with no comparison to the person you used to be.
I would like your daughter to get objective professional help. It is impossible to try and manage these things yourself, when you are so worn out and distraught you cannot see the wood for the trees. She needs to learn about abuse and understand what is actually going on, not what he says is going on. She would do well to see her GP. There are websites giving advice about critical and controlling men and how to cope. I found a few:
this one has a Christian perspective but is useful for non Christians too: www1.cbn.com/marriage/living-with-a-critical-control-freak
When I typed in "Critical Husband" it did not reflect one who drove his wife to leave the marital home. I think your SiL is more of a Controlling and Critical man, the Coercive type, a nastier person perhaps. Saying he doesn't want to be with her any more but letting her be the one to move out is very selfish. It suggests that he may be controlling and coercive. What are the signs?
Katie Ghosh, chief executive of Women's Aid describes it like this: " (It is) If your partner is constantly chipping away at your self-esteem and rubbishing you." and Professor Evan Stark compares it to being taken hostage: "The victim becomes captive in an unreal world created by the abuser, entrapped in a world of confusion, contradiction and fear." In case it is relevant see www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-46347957

I am so very sorry about this situation. Do not get involved with any nit-picking details of the arguments and encourage your daughter to let those details drop however niggling and unfair they may be. Just keep suggesting she refuses to argue or discuss with him the details of whatever he is criticising. Try and find that blanket reply and use it over and again in a dull neutral voice, such as "I hear you, maybe that is so, maybe not." Regarding ending the marriage, it needs Solicitors to handle that.

Sorry I have taken up so much space.
I do care very much about this kind of situation. I feel how distressing it is for you. I pray that a good outcome may be found and that in a few months time your daughter is living with her son happily and has returned to the happy, strong person she truly is. With love Elle x

Of course you should provide a safe haven where she knows she will be always be welcome. Right now, she needs a few hugs and some much needed space to sort out her problems....that's what family is for.

Above all, be a very supportive but impartial bystander. Easier said than done, (been there), but that's all you can do.

Definitely don’t interfere, just be there for your daughter and, if necessary, pick up the pieces afterwards.

Hopefully she just needs a little respite to sort everything out.

Next time she asks what you think, turn it back and ask how she feels about it.

Your Sil doesn’t want to be with your DD anymore and she has turned up on your doorstep with her child. Hmm. Why hasn’t he left! You say he is very critical of your DD and she lets him do it. She seems like a different person and not the strong person she used to be. Well sounds to me like a controller and a bully, you say they are children. Nope a 25 year old should not be classed as a child, they are adults! Their DS is a child! I’m glad she has somewhere safe to go away from him.. just be there for her to give support but ultimately she has to sort this herself. I hope she can get this situation sorted soon especially when a young child involved

Paperbackwriter yes, I didn't put that very well did I?

I do wonder why its not HIM who has moved out? But in leaving she has left herself a small chance to moving back hasn't she so she's in a position of power - whereas if she'd kicked him out she'd have no control over whether or not he returned.
I feel that deep down she's hoping he'll come to his senses and change his behaviour. Because it IS possible to love a bully, you hope he'll change (but he won't).
Mum is doing the right thing in giving her DD and child shelter and emotional help whilst avoiding taking sides. I hope she is strong enough to not let it upset her too much. it must be devastating for her.
Somehow I doubt he will change. Leopards and spots etc????

I agree with jaylucy if I saw my daughter constantly being criticised and having the stuffing knocked out of her I’d be around there in a shot packing up HIS belongings and telling him exactly what it is to be a ‘man’ not a mouse who has to belittle a woman to that extent she has had to uproot herself and small son and go back home, especially as you and your DH have seen it for yourself! No woman should ever have to put up with being constantly bullied by anyone least of all her husband. It sounds to me like he has a problem, is he having an affair? Often men do this to their partner or wife if they are carrying on with someone, for some unknown reason it makes them feel better to pick on the little woman back home whilst trying to make their mind up who they want!
If my husband told me he didn’t want me anymore he would be shown the front door faster than his legs could carry him I’m afraid. At 25 your DD still has plenty of time to find a nice caring husband who does treat her well and doesn’t criticise her.