UPDATE on MIL stops by unannounced

I do enjoy writing! But not what many posters enjoy reading ;)

I'm not getting treatment for PND as of yet. I think I need a life overhaul, not meds.

I'm still reading replies. I guess yes, I'd like to move to Canada but my husband would miss his parents and so would I. Yes, I think it's more my own issues than them doing anything all that wrong, per se. They are probably surprised I'm not as open to them as they would have liked...but I'm guessing I'm feeling more resentment that they are all I seem to have nowadays, rather than my own family and friends. And yes, I'm bored in Italy right now and don't want to go back to my crap job.

I've called MIL over tomorrow to watch baby for an hour while I do some cleaning...

It's not the "come by anytime" relationship I know she was probably expecting...but 4 to 5 days a week is all I can muster right now.

We wouldn't sell this house. We love it so much. And Italians don't sell properties. If anything, we'd just do a trial run for a year in Canada...But before that, my kid needs a sibling and I'm covered for another mat leave.

I guess I'd like to transplant my husband, my family, my house and my in-laws to Canada so I can have what I have...but on the other side of the Atlantic. That's what I'd love.

I think some of this may be cultural? Is it normal in there family/peergroup/country to hae unlimited, hands on access to grandchildren? They may see you as stand offish (you are clearly not!). It may be the family dynamics they are used to. I have to say - we rarely phone before visits in our family - and that goes both ways. Open door policy - but that is our family. They may have expected the same. They are probably doing their best. I think you have to decide how much you can cope with - consider a move if it gets too much?

I haven't read the whole of this thread but having ploughed through two previous of similar vein and seen the advice given I do feel this is much more to do with OP state of mind rather than exceptional 'wrong' doing on the side of the rest of the family.

I don't mean this disrespectfully Naty by any means and I think it is real to you. I suggested ages ago that you move house, other people have suggested the same, your husband has even suggested it (I think) You have dozens of reasons why you don't want that?

I would focus less on the 'folks' and more on what is making you question everything they do? My guess is that the only thing you really want is for your husband to ditch his family farm, pack up and ship off to Canada with you? I think you seem exceptionally bored with your life in Italy Maybe if you go back to work things will seem so much better? If you can't go back to work and can't leave then maybe consider writing a book (am serious as you are a good writer and do love writing).

I wish you well.

What treatment is available for moderate PND? Is Naty receiving it, I wonder?

Callistemon, Re: in the sea breastfeeding. The ridiculous hoohaa about mums feeding babies in swimming pools. The fake concern and outright attacks were pathetic.

It could all hit the fan if you do not get your act together with your husband - You do not seem to be on the same page with each other so I would start right there.
That could be difficult as I know from the experience of someone very dear to me whose in-laws have similar cultural expectations, although they are not as kind and nice as yours Naty. Your DH may take some convincing too.
It could take time and you need to be strong so that you continue with a good relationship with your PILs, for the sake of your child, you and your DH, but on your terms.

ananimous nailed it.

Hi Naty, I have been reading all your posts and the replies with interest.

I, too, have lived abroad and found it to be a quite a lonely life. My children were at school though and, as I didn't have a work visa, I did do a bit of volunteering and made some friends, but they just didn't seem on the same wavelength as my 'home' friends. In general, I was bored most of the day and would have loved to have had an extended family who wanted to see me and whom I professed to like. My parents and in laws are long gone now and are much missed; how I wish I could turn back the clock and still have them here.

I think you are never going to change the cultural outlook of your Italian family so you can only change the way you react to it. Put up half curtains/blinds/one way window linings so no one can see if they look in and do not leave doors unlocked then people cannot just walk in. When they do come unannounced then just carry on with what you were doing, no need to stop and entertain them if they were not invited, tell them to make their own drink and get you one at the same time If you want to walk around braless, then do it-too bad if they are embarrassed. Start inviting other young mums over and say it is inconvenient as you already have guests, if they turn up unannounced.

You are feeling as you do because you want your old Canadian life back so these niggly problems are magnified in your mind, but you may feel you have more control over your life if you change the way you react. Also, one serious word of advice-never turn away a free gardener!!

Breastfeeding him in the sea
Why would Gransnetters be horrified Gagajo?

Now if it was the English Channel in March yes, I would.
Or polluted by sewage or plastic all around.

Naty grandtante speaks a lot of sense.
And yes, your child will be brought up as an Italian child unless you intend to return to Canada. He will be lucky enough to learn about both cultures, learn both languages, but his home will, presumably be Italy.

Naty, I think a lot of the problems you are having are specifically due to your time of life. My daughter had my grandson in Spain, where I was living at the time. All the little niggles you feel about Italy are VERY similar to those I felt in Spain, BUT because I was working, had a busy life, friends etc, they were just niggles.

For my daughter, they were major issues. The culture was alien and she was surrounded by close-knit, extended families, everyone knew each other and we were very much the foreigners who lived there (not in a bad way, but we DID stand out). She was at home, all day, everyday, with a newborn baby and had no escape from it. I was fine. I was at work.

She just wanted to be in a familiar culture at that vulnerable time. To be her version of normal.

Of course, there were also lovely UPSIDES to being there. The coast was a 20 minute drive. Having the baby naked, in the shade, on the beach was wonderful. Breastfeeding him in the sea (gransnetters would be horrified) as advised by the doula, to get him used to the warm water.

But ultimately, she felt out of place. Any other time, she would have loved it.

You are vulnerable. You are a new mum with none of your own family near. It is normal to be having a hard time, whatever the negative posters on here say. Don't be hard on yourself.

I've tried a list of do's, so here's a list of don't's:-

You (going by your recent post) still need help with your porous boundaries. Don't do anything more until you understand what a boundary is.

You cannot "re-train" any people when your message is not consistant. Don't muddle your instructions.

The change you need is in yourself, not in the inlaws.
You will meet boundary-breakers all over the world.

Your child will grow to mimic your passive-aggressive style, or worse still exploit it, and you.

You could do a lot worse than binge watch on the subject via Youtube. And actually be too busy for visitors. *

Your husband has a similar passive-style communication.
Letting you handle all this upset, for instance.
People will always walk over a doormat. Whether that's your husband, PIL, or anyone in the world.

"Don't be a cup-cake" Richard Grannon Youtube

Don't be a doormat anymore, don't be vague, or go back on what you have asked for.
Don't be inconsistant.

Speak clearly and kindly - or move.

I feel sorry for all parties involved here - They are trying to guess what your ever-changing, and many "rules" are.
You are unboundaried so have not the skills to communicate precisely.
It could all hit the fan if you do not get your act together with your husband - You do not seem to be on the same page with each other so I would start right there.

Finally, I'm going to say this, too, If you continue to complain without doing some inner work you will find yourself in the same struggle this time next year.
I wish you all the best. Councelling may help you get back on track quicker. I hope you resolve this happily.

Moving to Canada is a very big step for your husband, who if I remember correctly is Italian.

IMO you should only consider it if you are certain you both want to go and that you both can get jobs there.

Your whole situation is typically caused by cultural differences:
You assumed that you would see your parents-in-law when you invited them or were invited to theirs, because that is the way things are done in Canada. They assumed that as you and their son chose to live near them, you were going to adopt the Italian lifestyle where the family come and go as they please because they are family.

You to be blunt don't seem at all interested in adapting to the culture you are living in. You will need either to do so, or persuade your husband to move farther away from his parents.

You need seriously to consider which aspects of your husband's culture you can accept, as he will natural want to bring up your child to Italian standards, whereas you apparently are adhering to Canadian norms. This will cause conflict throughout your marriage and the upbringing of your child

Sit down with him and discuss ALL values now, decide how you can adjust to each other's views and go on from there.

annepl I think these relationships work if they work for everyone, and thet rarely do. With my own family, I'd have to guard my husband and make sure he's okay. But most of the time, men are far more adaptable and have a lot less to do with childcare and household duties than women.

paddylane I think a lot of the issue here, is that I resent the fact that I have people who SHOULD be close to me, can't or don't or won't understand me fundamentally as a person.

My family, on the other hand, "get" me.

Paddyanne that all sounds lovely and obviously worked for you.
I lived very close to all my in laws - PiL,husbands aunt, brother in law, and it was great in many ways.
But I remember once being told off by my brother in law for telling his five year old daughter to go home. I had put my children to bed and wanted some time to relax.
And for a period my MiL came after dinner every evening and chatted for hours. You couldn't say anything. That's how they lived.

It doesn't work for everyone.

paddyanne I see my in-laws as a great resource to my family and lovely, REALLY I am not lying, LOVELY people. I do not however, want to be bombarded with visits for my child. We didn't have this type of relationship before the baby, so I resent them dropping by so much now when I have such little time and am already dealing with my handful of baby duties. They see my child 5x per week, most weeks. I just like even 5 minutes notice so I can relax in between times (i.e. go without a bra, not have to wear trousers, sing my heart out etc). I have a similar relationship with my own family (that which you described with yours) in Canada. However, my family is very relaxed and don't insist on their own ways. They are sloth-like and never bothered. My in-laws, however, are up at 5 and FIL runs 8km every two days. They are busy bodies and don't understand the concept of doing nothing and relaxing. I feel uncomfortable with them observing what I'm doing (or not doing) because we're so different.

Feelingmyage55 I feel sorry that you had such a terrible MIL!

Callistemon I do agree. They are VERY nice people and I often feel guilty that I'm not as close to them as I am my own family.

At least you say they are nice Naty, if overwhelming.

It could be worse. I do know some PILs (more than one lot) from a similar culture and yours sound wonderful in comparison.

maybe try to look at these grandparents being an asset rather than an annoyance.I grew up in a large extended family,3 families lived under ine roof until my parents got a home of their own and then granny sold the house we shred with her and a couple of aunts and uncles and move in with us.She was there until she died when I was 18.She was a joy and a delight and huge influence on me and my sisters.Very politcal ,she was a suffragette and had even been arrested for knocking a policemans helmet off at a demo in the late 1900 early 1020's.She was a great storyteller and we all loved having her around.She wasn't a huge fan of my lovely dad at first but after a few years they were the best of friends and had loads in common. I cant imagine what lifewould have been like without her .I now have a similar relationship with my GC,luckily my kids are the same as me and we dont knock doors or make appointments to see each other,they drop in when they want,raid my freezer for their dinner ,drop their children off without notice ,give me their problems BUT invite me to parties and nights out with their friends too ..I know they love me and their dad and I have a great relationship with the GC who all msg me on FB almost daily with their news and their worries.(my daughter had health issues and her children help care for her) In an ideal world I believe allfamilies should be like ours ...not that I'm biased ..lol.Make the most of your Inlaws ,the relationship between GP and GC can be wonderful.My granny died when I was 18 ..I'm 66 now and I still talk about her a lot and my GC have heard the stories she used to tell us.It could open up a whole new world for you by approaching life with them from a different angle.Good luck adn please learn to relax and enjoy these people who love you ,your husband and your child .Thers not enough love in the world
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Hello naty. I have read your previous thread and sympathise. My MIL was widowed and used to turn up constantly, no warning, drove 60 miles, expected to be waited on hand and foot, invited her friends to visit her in my house for lunch and to see the baby, criticised BFing (disgusting) and how I dressed my baby. It almost broke me. I didn’t know when she might turn up and it made me tense. It also prevented friends calling in as they would see her ( distinctive) car so it isolated me and made me unhappy. I sympathise but in fact you have answered your own problem - get the gate with buzzer put in pronto ( ? ). It might be just what is need to cut back the visits and stop the window peering. You could quickly get to the tipping point of bearable visits. What about asking them for a meal each weekend, no drops ins to you, but you randomly visit them max twice a week, on the mornings and you must get back for nap time, then are free for the rest of the day. Good luck and don’t be put off reporting back because I for one like some update/feedback.

Callistemon,

Your insights are spot on. I will consult mumsnet if need be, but I do think that I've got all the answers I'll ever need for this specific situation. I think my family know this best and have also given me a lot of support.

My doctor is NOT helpful in many circumstances. She shrugged off my pregnancy, making me scramble for prenatal care in the fourth month. She doesnt have children...
I do have a part time job, but I am dreading going back, as I do not want to go back to old situations and the career stagnation I feel here.

I think living, giving up work and having a baby thousands of miles away from your own family and friends and living in a different culture is very unsettling.

It's not necsssarily PND, unless your doctor diagnoses that, but it is a huge adjustment.

I think your problems are quite specific and I don't think that many of us have the necessary experience to help you, that's why I thought that there could be younger people on Mumsnet, which has a much larger membership, who may be able to help.

Personally, I think that finding a part-time job outside the home after your maternity leave is up, could be better for you. Away from the house and meeting new people rather than being anxious that you could be interrupted at any moment.

Oh, and I've googled DWILs and those women seem nutty, much like me. I think having you ladies helped more than they ever would.

I haven't tried mumsnet because I wanted advice from ppl in my in-laws cohort.

I'm looking into online work in order to stay home. I hate my job, anyway. I'd like granny and grandpa to take care of my child but only as a recreational, fun thing for them and bonding for her and not further dependency on our part.

I really can't get shutters. We need the light in here, BUT I'll talk to DH about installing a gate where you have to buzz to get in (his parents want us to get this for our child's safety, so it won't seem aggressive.

I did go out a lot during the first few months of my baby's life but resented my in-laws more because I was running away from the house instead of being comfortable.

I have talked about moving back to Canada with my family and they are supportive. My husband considers this a more remote option, obviously. He does not want to leave Italy, his parents or his house. Life in my city is very expensive and rat-racy... we'd have to live with family while I go back to school for another degree..my husband would be a house husband for a bit...not sure that would be the best thing for us.... my family know it's not my in-laws making me unhappy...it's primarily me being unhappy with life here and resenting the loss of my friends and family at home (although I DO see them quite a bit, even though I'm over here..I'll be going to Canada to visit family for a month very soon. I've already been with the baby, so it's not like I.dont see my family...

But I often find myself deeply resenting the fact that I don't have a career that I like. Plus further resentment of Italian things I really dislike (casual racism and sexism...small town mentalities in my area ).

I had an idea of what I was getting into with having a child here, but didn't realize how many negative feelings the birth of my child would bring up.

I've tested moderate for PND.

DH is a bit panicky but looking into ways for me to make money online so I can go visit Canada more often with baby.

Family is calling me to do yoga via skype with them to improve my mood.

I don't have a concrete plan, but when I make those steps and change my life for the better, I'll UPDATE those who have invested the time to read my posts with something very positive.

Thank you all again.

Like many others, I too am perplexed as to why this situation is still not resolved. On OPs previous threads, so much positive and genuine advice was offered and OP seemed confident that she had a plan for going forward. As it appears that the plan failed at the first hurdle, it would appear that she has 3 options:
1. Sell up and move to Canada or somewhere far far away from in laws.
2. Fit plantation shutters to the windows so that they can be adjusted for privacy. The vast majority of Italian houses have these anyway to screen the sun out, so it won't be an action that is out of the ordinary.
3. Get out of the house with your friends more frequently so that you're not at home all the time. It seems like you're just waiting for the in laws to turn up and break the rules now so, if you're not at home so much, you're avoiding seeing them when you don't want to. Plus, if they're never sure when you'll be in, that will deter them from making spontaneous visits.

So what are you going to do naty?