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This is my 1st post on GN as I would love the perspective of those further down the line to me, so to speak. Sorry for the long post! I don't have one clear question I'm afraid, despite the post title!
I have two sons who are 4 and soon to be 8. Before having our 1st child both my husband and I hoped to have 2 children.
My elder son was born after two distressing years of unexplained infertility IVF treatment (we were lucky that our 1st cycle worked). I was 35 when I had him. We both desperately wanted our 1st child and also desperately wanted a second too. We had an unsuccessful transfer of a frozen embryo from that same treatment cycle when my son was 2.5. I conceived but had an early miscarriage which was emotionally very hard.
We tried naturally next time as couldn't face the stress of more treatment even though we had a couple of embryos remaining. I conceived my first ever natural pregnancy but sadly lost that one just before the 12 week scan. This was again hard emotionally and harder still physically as it was later in the pregnancy.
We decided to try once more naturally as we now knew we could conceive and were lucky to conceive a third fourth time and that gave us our youngest son. As you can imagine it was a very stressful pregnancy given our earlier losses. And there were additional issues in the pregnancy which luckily turned out to be nothing but at various points my son was suspected of having an overly large head and small limbs. He was born healthy just before I turned 39.
So, I will soon turn 43. My eldest is moving up to junior school in September and my youngest will start in reception year. We still have two embryos frozen in storage at our IVF clinic, almost 8.5 years on from when they were created and have paid annually to store them every year since.
I have worked part time since my eldest was 10mths old in a job that is boring but suits me practically for now. I have transferable skills which mean if I wanted to work more hours I would in theory have other job options open to me. I have also considered retraining (teaching/social work/ nursing appeal) but wonder if I'm too old.
We have no family support locally, just me and my husband. My own mum passed away when my youngest was tiny and I miss her dreadfully. My lovely MIL lives hundreds of miles away.
I am one of two with a sibling who is much older than me so we grew up effectively as two only children and are not especially close as adults but we do get on.
My sons are amazing and I adore them. But both were awful sleepers as babies and toddlers and we found the slep deprivation so so hard and while they mostly get on now, and they are very close in many ways, I find splitting my attention between them and refereeing their squabbling very hard and draining.
My husband is the eldest of 3 boys and is amicable with but not close to his brothers.
Both my BILs have had new / 1st babies in the past year and this, along with my own two getting older and the youngest moving to school age, and the remaining embryos we have, has had me in turmoil for over a year now about whether to try for a third baby. Opinion on similar threads on mumsnet is divided though the saying 'you only regret the kids you don't have' comes up. So grans, is this true?
I have so many thoughts going round my head daily and it's exhausting!
I feel an obligation to give my two remaining embryos a chance? Or at least one of them. But I also feel that having had IVF and being lucky enough to have 'spare' embryos has left me in an unusual and emotionally charged situation.
Are 3 kids better than 2? For you as a parent and for them as siblings?
Would a baby take away from my time with my two boys? Would I regret this?
Could I cope / be happy as a mum of 3? Why do I feel I would be a worse mum to 3 than I am to 2, especially when others with less means seem to cope with 4,5 +?
Do boys stay close to their mums (and dads!) as they grow up and become adults?
I know gender isn't guaranteed if we try for a third but I do feel sad to be missing out on a mother daughter relationship if we stop at 2.
My husband is happy as we are and had tolerated my prevarication but is getting frustrated now. He says he doesn't want me to regret things and will agree to try for a third if I am sure it is what I want even though he doesn't want a third in the same way he wanted a first and a second. We both have worries about the risks to me, any baby and our existing children of any future pregnancy. I fear another miscarriage especially if late on, or a still birth, or baby with health issues, or a multiple birth!
The feeling for a third comes and goes, and seems to be linked to my still regular menstrual cycle (perimenopause some say?!), my boys growing up and pregnancy announcements from others. I find myself noticing 3 children families whenever we are out and about (which isn't often at the moment of course!) and thinking of all the 3 or more child families I know. Part of me wonders and is frustrated by why I can't just decide what I want and why I seem to worried about possible bad outcomes.
But the main thing holding me back is that my husband clearly doesn't want a third in the same way as he did a first and second. I clearly don't either given my hesitation and constant mind changing, but I have more of a want for a third than him and fear that the inevitable stress of any future pregnancy and of raising a third child could be damaging to our relationship and our relationships with our sons.
I partly feel I can't tempt fate after ending up with two healthy and, to me, perfect sons after at one time fearing I would be childless forever and all the loss and stress that we experienced on the way to having them. Trying for a third is a total unknown and sticking with what we have feels safer.
Will I regret not trying for a third?
Will I find peace with stopping at two? And how?
Did you have these feelings for another baby in your early 40s? Is it hormones talking?
Am I just too risk averse?
Will the empty nest come too soon if we stop at two?
Will my sons grow distant as they grow older, more than any possible daughter might?
Does my husband's preference to stick at the two we have trump everything anyway?
Is my uncertainty about a third a sign that we should stick where we are?
Am I too old now and are my age gaps too big to work well?
(I will already be 57 when my youngest turns 18. If we had a third I would be great 62 when they reached 18.)
Thanks for reading! I would so appreciate your thoughts.
Many years ago, a person much wiser and more experienced than me said 'when in doubt the answer's no'. I have fallen back on this advice with gratitude on many occasions. Seems to me your post is full of doubts.
Redfox2 - really appreciated your contribution.
I have one child and would have liked another sibling for her but it wasn’t to be. I hardly ever think about what might have been, just happily get on with things the way they are and count my blessings, especially grandchildren.
You’ve been through some very difficult times. Perhaps now it’s time to be someone who’s content with your lot, to decide to go forward with no regrets.
Remember their are plenty of parents with strained, or no relationship, with their adult daughters. There are no guarantees with family relationships.
I had my 3rd child with my husband after he had had a vasectomy reversal and we had 3 rounds of fertility treatment (ICSI). The first round was astonishingly successful and we found ourselves looking forward to a baby girl much to our delight. When she was found to have a congenital abnormality at 20 weeks and was unlikely to live so you can imagine the emotional hit that took especially when I nearly died (literally) when I went into labour as my uterus ruptured.
The drive to have another baby was incredibly strong even though I knew I was risking my life so we had a round of ICSI with the remaining embryos but it was not to be. Our third round was with our son. There were originally two babies which was problematic because one of the conditions of the treatment was I would only carry a singleton. Fortunately, the decision was taken out of my hands and one baby stopped growing very early and my son was born. I'll be honest I was sad he wasn't a girl but didn't dare say anything because I knew I was blessed to have him.
There were frozen embryos left and I would have considered going again for another round of ICSI but my husband felt he couldn't go through that again mainly down to age. I couldn't bring myself to tell the clinic to let the embryos go but after 10 years I stopped paying and put my head in the sand.
Now, at 58 with a 19 year old son, I can honestly say that I am mainly glad we stopped when we did. One of the pros of all the ups and downs was that the tragedies solidified our relationship. I think we both felt that if we could survive that, we could survive almost anything. Throughout the whole thing, I was the driving force for another child. He would have been accepting of no more children (but adores our son) and could see the advantages of not having one.
The pros and cons are various but the two that really jump out at me are: a/ the embryos are quite old now so are less likely to be successful so you could be setting yourself up for failure and b/ as you get older you are at more risk of things going wrong in a pregnancy and it is possible you could leave the 2 lovely children you have as motherless. I think, unless you are absolutely 100 percent certain you want another child and it is such a driving force you can't stop yourself, then you are probably best off not trying again.
Yes, I do! DH and I sat down to have the How Many? And When? conversation. We both loved our jobs and were party people so it needed discussing as we'd already decided I'd stop working until they were more or less grown up. We'd just bought a house and the mortgage was quite big. Anyway we decided we could afford two (seems absolutely laughable now when babies are popped out without a thought, but this was forty years ago and responsibilities were taken seriously then. Again seems laughable now...) So we had two boys and the next ten years were absolutely wonderful - I loved every minute! Two of my friends had taken the plunge at the same time and were back at work in a flash, they called me Mrs Cabbage! But I did long for another baby, a girl, but finances were too tight also we had two friends who had kept trying for a girl (or boy) and ended up with five boys and five girls. So I put the thought away. Seeing ChrystalBall's post brought it all back.
Take a few minutes and see if you can write down the pros and cons clearly.
You don't want to be haunted by what might have been but parenthood IS
exhausting and for life.
I suspect I'd go for it but I'm the mum of 7 .. Now there's crazy !
All the very best, anyway.
I had a boy and a girl when I was in my early twenties and planned to have two more when they were ten and twelve and we were better off financially. However my husband fell ill so it never happened. My daughter died when she was twenty but my wonderful son is now seventy one.
Love my two adult adopted sons. We could have had a 3rd or even 4th - but we didn't want to upset what we had, so I don't regret anything. Apart from anything else, I didn't want to drive a car big enough for 4 children!
They came to us when I was 41, aged 1 and 2 - now I am pushing 66 and they are 26 & 27
Of course nobody can make a decision for you but we can give you a few things to think about.
Firstly, do try to find out what your husband really wants, it has to be a joint decision. Try to wait until the boys are in bed and you are sitting down to a nice meal, or, ideally, if you can, get a babysitter and go out for one.
Secondly, your boys are still young and I would guess that they are exhausting at times. Do you really want all those sleepless night on top.
Thirdly you are definitely not too old to retrain, I retrained as a FE teacher in my 50s. With your knowledge of bringing up children you would make an ideal social worker or early years teacher. My daughter is a social worker and it's hard work but very rewarding.
I only had one child and never regretted having another but I now have a beautiful granddaughter so I am enjoying it all over again.
Finally, if after all that you do decide you want another child, then go ahead. It may not even be successful so the decision might be made for you.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I'm sure you will have no regrets either way.
I wanted three ....had my first , a daughter, then two late miscarriages ( both girls) in next two years. My husband only ever wanted a single child so was reluctant to try again. But we did, and my son was born after an easy pregnancy and an even easier birth. Never pushed him for the third , and ha e been more than happy with two. Please don’t go through what you e been through again. You have two lovely little boys...be grateful and content with them.
I have 2 daughters and a son. Love them all to bits. Now I have Grandchildren I sometimes wish I had had a fourth child but I know how lucky I am to have had any children. I love my family we are all close.
No matter what you do it will never turn out how you were hoping or expecting.... so....even if you have a girl, there's no saying she will be closer to you than a boy...
If you have a third and it's a boy, would you be unhappy and bitter and want a 4th?
If you have a third and it's a girl but has medical issues and developmental delays, will you be happy?
Happy with two boys. I had been disappointed very briefly (all of three hours; when bonding kicked in; after initial shock as believed I was having a girl) after the birth of my second son. They are both now adults and I'm very close to both. They both get on but have their own circle of friends. Only thing I miss is perhaps going on holiday or to a spa with a daughter and being able to share a room; however any daughter I may have had; may not have wanted to come with me or it may not have been practical for another reason. Do whatever is right for you and your family; whilst being aware that whatever you do won't be perfect either.
Before I married I always thought I'd have a dozen children. We had five - and the youngest is now almost 40.
I'm grateful for the five children we had together, and thankful that we stopped there. I've always believed that God gave us families because we grow as individuals by solving problems - and with families there will always be problems to solve: But I love our kids (as does my wife) and we wouldn't be without any of them, no matter what problems they have brought us.
NO, NO and thrice NO! !!!! I have 3 children. I hardly see my eldest son and it is always me running around after them. I phone, text and visit them and they always have an excuse not to come to my house. My daughter - I havent seen or spoke to in 5.5 years for reasons I dont know. I have text, phoned and wrote with no answer. I wont turn up on the door step in case it upsets my grand daughters. Infact if it wasnt for her ex husband I would never see my 2 beautiful grand daughters. My youngest son is totally different and he cannot do enough for me.
Re my earlier post, I should have also said that I love our three boys to pieces. When our third boy was born, many people said to me, “Oh, what a shame, another boy” but I never felt that at all. Enjoy your boys, Crystal Ball. They’re very special.
Unfortunately there are no guarantees about how future relationships between siblings or yourself and your children will pan out. It's all a big unknown when they are young. Me and my siblings are all in different countries. We have very different lives. You don't know what sex this child will be or how their future might pan out either, what they might choose to do.
I'm not too much older than you and all my children are grown or almost grown. I have had many older women say to me over the years that they wish they had more children, so I always got the impression that was a common thought. I guess what they were wishing for was an idea of how they think it might have been though, as they don't know what the reality of those more children might have been.
I agree with others that counselling to work through your thoughts and feelings might be helpful in helping you make this decision.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I've no experience of this. However, if you went ahead and had that 3rd embryo implanted and a baby came. What then? Would you be thinking about the 4th embryo also? Maybe the IVF clinic does have a counsellor you could talk to.
My feeling is, you have been very lucky to have 2 heathy children. Stop worrying and enjoy what you have right now. Be the best Mum you can for them. Time goes so quickly.... really treasure them now.
I'll keep this short. I think the combination of having the embryos and your hormones are giving you a huge dilemma. Try not to think of the embryos as children in waiting. Your hormones will keep you wanting another baby always, even through the menopause. Expand your thoughts on what the future could for your family as it is now and your personal goals. You may one day regret not having another baby BUT you will know that the decision made was the right one for you and your family at the time. To have regrets is a natural thing for us all in one way or another. I don't mean my post to be advisory but am saying it is natural to go on wanting another baby but we all have to ignore the hormones at different times in our lives. If you decide to have a third child I wish you the best.
Not much has been replied about one of your questions - when your two sons grow up, will they be as close to you as a daughter would be? In my experience, yes, they will. My son (my youngest) is as close to me now at 50 as his sisters are. His wife is like a third daughter. You are concerned about a lonely future - the future is largely how you make it.
I think it depends how you bring up your sons, and that is something that varies so much from one family to another that it is not easy to predict. If the atmosphere is not good, you can hardly expect them to be affectionate once they leave home, but if you are too "clingy" they may distance themselves out of self-preservation.
Then there is the vexed question of daughters-in-law. The best approach to that is that "to keep your children, you have to let them go" If they have been accustomed to make their own decisions, with their parents as their equal friends who advise if consulted , then that will continue. If they rely too heavily on parental input and approval for what they do, and their parents rely too heavily on them, a wife is going to feel she counts for nothing, and resent the over-closeness. As the bond between partners is a basic one, that is what will win out. Mothers have to be gracious about their sons' wives!
I was lucky enough to have my daughter and son in my twenties. We were not well off and I had to work while they were small and they had childminders during that time. When I was 43 I suddenly found that I was pregnant and felt very thrilled, started to plan and found myself looking in the windows of Mothercare and other baby shops. By then I had enough money to be able to buy anything I wanted for a baby, which I had not been able to afford for my earlier children. Unfortunately I lost the baby at about 6 weeks. Mty son and daughter now in their fifties have provided me with beautiful grandchildren. 43 is not too old. Don't live your life regretting that you have not had a chance to become a Mum again. But it is up to you, nobody can live your life for you.
As far as adults' parents are concerned, I had nothing in common with my mother, but was always close to my mother-in-law. You can't generalise.
You have been through such a lot but been lucky and have two healthy boys. Mother Nature will keep trying to persuade you to have more. I had a very difficult 3rd pregnancy and afterwards the midwife said to me that I had only just got away with it and please to not have anymore, I was 29. If all your pregnancies had been easy and straightforward it might be worth what would be a bit of a gamble at 43 but you have been through the mill with it all, you have a husband who probably doesn't want you to suffer anymore and may be scared at the prospect so please do really think hard before leaping into the dark.
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