Dogs and children.

I have three dogs MissAdventure two are rescue dogs. They live as part of the household, in fact they seem to have priority in most things. I would never leave a baby unattended with my dogs though or younger children. Dog owners need to be responsible for their pets.

I think the dog which mauled the child in Doncaster was a Chow Chow, irresponsible owner as usual

There are some total fools who claim to be animal lovers.
It really gets my goat, if you'll pardon the pun.

It would seem the parents of the poor child that was attacked at 2 days old had 16 dogs ! If that is true they deserve to be shot.

Too many people don’t understand dogs. - well why the heck should they? They are not a necessity.

Oo I wasn't brave enough to say that Luckygirl. I don't know why people would want 6. Yes I know none of my business what anyone else does.

I'm not sure if the comment about why anyone would want 6 dogs was directed at me but here is the story.
I had a smallholding and 60 sheep. I used to train sheepdogs and bred a couple of litters. I had to downsize due to personal reasons and I still had 6 dogs. They were as much my pets to me as you with only 1 are to you. Consequently, I ended up in a normal sized house with a normal sized garden and 6 dogs!
OK. I only have 2 now and will never have more than 2 again

Fair enough sart I didn't mean to have a go.

There are too many people buying huge dogs, particularly cross breeds like the one in the case of the 12 day old baby. Cross breeds are not like the old mongrel types most of us knew as children.
This huge cross breed lived in a pen in the garden. It had been passed on from another family member. It got out of the pen, ran into the house and savaged the baby, who was in a Moses basket. The baby's father tried but wasn't able to pull the dog off.
I have always lived with dogs, except about 4 years after I left home. I've had large breeds, cross breeds and rescues, as well as fostering for a breed specific rescue.
My feeling is that there are simply too many dogs. Dogs that are passed around and don't live with people who 'know dogs'. Some people never go to a training group, have no idea how to train or manage their dogs behaviour. my heart goes out to this family who lost their baby. But seriously, who ever thought a huge dog could be kept in a backyard in a tiny pen it could easily get out of. Was the dog ever walked exercised or trained in any way. I see some awful examples of no training, no idea how to manage dogs when I'm walking mine.
Dogs with no recall, no manners and no solid respectful bond with their owner.
Dog puppy prices are astronomical currently. I hope it stops some people from buying a pup, from a breed they haven't researched properly they then mess the pup up and either pass it on to someone else, or hand it in to rescue.
Sorry that's a rant rather than anything constructive

I've always been a dog lover and when I was a kid we had a Jack Russel who I loved to bits. I remember he was asleep under the table once and I went under the table to kiss him goodnight. I think I startled him and he went for me and bit my face. You can never trust dogs with children, especially babies.

I never left our Jack Russell alone with my granddaughter when I was looking after her. He is old, deaf and quite grumpy. He's never, ever gone to bite anyone but I just didn't trust him and would never forgive myself if anything had happened. To me it was about protecting the child first and foremost but also would it have been a terribly sad end if we'd had to have the dog put to sleep had anything happened.

25Avalon - thanks for the laughter:

'When my gd arrived we were careful and kept her on a lead'

Hetty58

25Avalon - thanks for the laughter:

'When my gd arrived we were careful and kept her on a lead'

Really?
Your granddaughter?
Makes sense!

Positive reinforcement is about train your dog to behave in a disciplined way without fear and force. Its very effective for children, dogs and horses. Much interesting work is being done on using positive reinforcement in horse training, so no bit, no whips, no spurs. It is showing amazing results.
It is, especially to begin with hard work. But it pays off big time with children and animals learning how to take good decisions as a matter of course rather than through fear and supression.
Physical methods of punishment and aversion may seem effective, in the short term. But they set problems for the future. They are also unkind and abusing the total power and control e already have over these dependent sentient beings. Bullying is never the answer.

Luckygirl

*Too many people don’t understand dogs.* - well why the heck should they? They are not a necessity.

We know your views and in fact dogs are a necessity. My autistic grandson declares his dog is his best friend, in fact his only friend. My next door neighbour couldn’t live a full life without his guide-dog. Search and rescue victims, forensics dogs, police dogs, farm dogs, the list is endless.

But there will always be those whose own narrow views can’t see the wider picture. And who are emotionally incapable of forming a relationship with an animal and understanding how people can love their pets.

My son has a lifelong fear of dogs after being attacked by one.

As a five year old, he was happily playing in the garden, when a neighbours' dog, which had been locked up all day, escaped, jumped the fence and ripped open his ankle.

He had to go to hospital and the police became involved.
Up until the moment she was about to take the stand, she denied all responsibility. That is until her lawyer saw the five children, who had been kept of school to give evidence.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to keep dogs.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence Marydoll. In fact that gets exactly to the heart of the problem.

Dogs are not the problem it is the owners.

One rescue dog I owned bit me several times until he learned there was nothing to fear. He lived to a ripe old age and after those first few traumatic months never bit anyone, child, stranger or another dog ever again.

Furret - I do understand how people love their dogs and what they mean to them. When I was a hospital social worker I always helped patients ensure that their pets were safely cared for so that they could get well with a peaceful mind.

My views about dogs have been formed by my experience of them - not good as you might guess! - just as yours have been formed by your experience of them. Both are fine and valid views of course. What is not fine is when those who love dogs allow them to be a nuisance - or indeed a danger - to others.

I understand how people become deeply attached to their dogs; but there are some dog owners who do not understand how much I (and many others) do not wish to have the attentions of those dogs forced on us.

Every time I hear how a child has been maimed or worse still killed by a dog I am thoroughly sickened. This is the danger when people become so attached to/obsessed with their dogs and forget that they are not substitute humans, but animals with wild instincts.

I do know that many gransnetters love their dogs dearly and behave in a thoroughly responsible way, and I commend them for this.

The problem lies with those dog owners who either do not care for their pets properly, or respect the needs of others around them.

Glad I gave some a little humour.
I have very strict views on keeping dogs. One is that you should not have them unless you can look after them properly which to me means not leaving them home alone all day whilst at work. I think it is cruel and I have told my eldest daughter who does this that I do not approve. I would report it to the RSPCA except unless the animal is starved or beaten it doesn’t count as cruelty.

After my son died I got a dog against my DH’s wishes and he strictly avoided and ignored her so she kept out of his way. It was hell when she was a puppy as not only did I have regular puppy behaviour but I had to hide it from dh. Gradually over the years he grew to like her and to dread her going. He started stroking her and loved it when she obeyed him and he could show her off doing tricks. She has been gone nearly a year now and he wants another!

I am nervous around dogs having been attacked when I was a small child. Too often when a dog jumps up the owner will say something like - he is only playing, he won't hurt you. My reply is to ask if they have told the dog that!

On the other hand I had a friend who took in two rottweilers - they had been badly treated and no-one else was prepared to take them on. She put in the time and effort and eventually I was even able to feel at ease around them. The only time they showed any sign of aggression was when my friend's ex. turned up and was threatening her.

Owners should have to undergo instruction on keeping an animal before being allowed to own one so it is safe and so is everyone around it.

A poster claimed that her dogs had priority in the house.
This is one of the big problems with dog ownership.

A dog is a pack animal it needs to know who the pack leader is and it is you.
If the dog is allowed on your bed then that is giving the dog dominance, a dog that does not know it’s place in the household will be confused.

Whilst we have domesticated dogs we still need to create the right environment and boundaries are vital

.

That's exactly what my daughter was told by the dog trainer.
They said that a dog is very happy to have a leader; it stresses it out to think it has to be in charge sometimes, and leads to all sorts of behaviours.

ClaireAB, I expect you’ve seen Momty Roberts work with ponies, horses and maybe read about his work with children. He’s a fascinating man, who observed wild horses in his US state and decided that’s how he’d work with them . His own dad was a traditional man who expanded the “breaking horses” approach to his children and his work as a police officer.
Monty works empathically, I saw him spend 15 mins with a pony who had scars from a RTA when the horse box he was travelling in was damaged. The pony hadn’t been in a box since. Traditional methods with ropes and force failed. Within 15 mins the pony was walking quietly and slowly by Monty’s side, into a horse box. Monty and his wife fostered ‘difficult boys’ he was clear, violence achieved nothing. He used role model, sanctions and stability,
Horses and dogs like children, need structure, kindness, stability and boundaries, consistently maintained,.

Recently had to put my beautiful chihuahua to sleep who was age 13 I had him from 8 weeks old . I’ve been and still am heartbroken.Im age 73 and lived alone with my two chihuahua in a small bungalow on housing estate for 12 years . Our homes are built so close either side with just a public path between us . So we get to know our Nieghbour s impossible not too . Some friends sent flowers and cards which I placed outside at front of my home . I been hurt by the lack of response from two neighbors who know I’ve No family and my little chihuahua s mean the world to me .The see me taking them walks with their harness on everyday . And my little fur babies have never caused a problem here . Anyway today a Neighbor opposite shouted hello You alright today as I was at my front door she was letting g her family leave who had just visited . I looked up and replied you have known me all these years and I know you have heard about me losing my pet but not a word or card from you . She replied I told you I was sorry about you losing your dog When you told me ? I cannot remember this . So I went back inside . However she knows me and we have been neighbors and previously have spoken nearly every few days but I’ve been ill with grief so not been hardly outside the door . For sure I certainly would have sent her a card had it been her dog that had died and if I knew it meant the world to her .
People I’ve known a short time have sent cards and messages and flowers . I feel hurt lonely and devastated still losing my best little friend.