Is this normal

I do feel for the children as they can be used as a kind of bargaining tool, with more often than not dad being the one side lined. However, I am sure in this they want what's best for the children. It's between just those two to decide what's best. I don't know the father but maybe he is just voicing a genuine concern and not being controlling, whatever it is.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

How long has ex been with his partner?

How long has DD been with her new partner?

I wonder whether your daughters soon to be ex was controlling while they were together and can't lose the habit now that they are separated.

This doesn't seem to be about Christmas arrangements but more to do with controlling who the ex-wife can introduce his children to. The short answer is he can't. Unless there are safety reasons, when your DD has the children, it is up to her who they see. Equally, when your SIL has them, she has no say. He could introduce them to a different woman each time he had them but unless the children were adversely affected there is nothing she can do.
This is something that women often use to avoid giving the Father access and use all sorts of "rules" to control the situation. The courts do not allow this but, often, men don't realise this. Now, it may be that it might be comforting for the absent parent to get to know the people in their children's life but it isn't an absolute right. Your daughter, assuming she is a responsible parent, will be deemed by the court to be able to make the right decisions for the children and the same for the father. There are a few areas where both parents are expected to come to an agreement about like the school children will attend and if they can't, the Court will make the decision.

Our family is one gets Christmas Eve/morning and other gets Christmas lunch/night. Next year it's other way round.

i don't think he can say anything about where she takes them, with whom etc on her days to have the boys, unless there is some abuse involved.
that's the reality of splitting up.
others will know more.
however we might think it is not ideal, all that is subjective, like ideas about diet, lifestyle, religious practice or not, he does not have a veto.
nor her with his activities/ associates when he has them.
they should each do what is best for the boys, of course, but each has as much right as the other to decide what that means in practice.

.....and yes, they have been separated for a while. DD just trying to get the papers signed.
Just to add he has a new partner too , whom the boys see

There is no dispute over who has them which day. The children who are 8 and 11 will definitely be consulted as to which parent they are with.
All I was asking was your opinions on their father dictating who they see when they are with mum.

Sorry, typo, who HIS children see when they are with your daughter.

And of course the father gets a say in who HIS children see when he is with your daughter. He doesn't stop being their dad just because they're not together anymore.

If he were to talk them someone inappropriate, presumably your DD would have a say in whether she thought it was appropriate or not.

Depends how new the new relationship is. No parent should be introducing children to new partners in the first 6 months at least, IMO. Possibly not even for as long as the first year.

If a parent has a string of partners, nothing wrong with it, but the children need the stability of only being introduced once it looks as if it will be a permanent relationship.

Is this a concern of the childrens father? If so, I think he is entirely reasonable. Can't she go off to see her new blokes family, leaving the children either with their dad, or with your family? I can't imagine the children will be thrilled to spend the holiday with people that are little more than strangers.

The needs of the children come first, they need to see their parents, both of them, at Christmas.

In the cause of stability, that would be my priority for the children.

Adults can wait.

Loads of good advice already given. I think the underlying issue maybe jealousy I’ve witnessed this when another family are introduced to the GC. I have a friend who’s ex is in your sons position and she’s moved miles away with the children to stop them getting involved with ex partners family, it was jealousy behind it.

I feel sorry for the children being mixed up in all these relationships. It's up to the parents to decide what happens no matter how wrong or unjust you may feel it is.

In my divorce the Judge gave my ex Boxing Day and myself Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. He said that as I was the parent who took full time care of the children that was only right. The children knew where they were each year and never questioned it. Over the years that followed ex never gave the children a holiday, not even a weekend. They did question this. I asked him to spend more time with them. He only lived minutes away. My GP even spoke to him and asked why. She also said I needed a break for health issues. He was charming and agreed with everything. However, sadly the promised holidays never materialised, yet he jetted off around the world 2-3 times a year. Sad. So I never had any qualms having Christmas Day.

What age are the children, ninathegran? If they are considered old enough to make these decisions the family court would
listen to them.

Since my DD split from her now ex husband they take alternate years with Christmas Boxing Day NY Day etc and Mothers/Father’s Day with the parent whose special day it is. My DD and her ex really don’t get on at all but there has never been any argument regarding whose ‘turn’ it is. I think your ex SIL has every right to see the DC on one of the days certainly more right than her partners parents. I agree he should not dictate who they see when they are with your DD unless there was abuse involved which there obviously isn’t so he should back off! Anyway who knows what C will be like anywhere this year I can’t even begin to get excited or make arrangements now - not that I get excited about it anyway!

Grandmabatty

It sounds like your dd has moved on very quickly from her marriage as you are saying he is a soon to be ex. That is not a criticism, I mean she seems to be very quickly introducing her new partner to children before they have come to terms with the split. Now there may be a huge back story, however I can understand why their father is unhappy if he's being edged out of a relationship with his children. It all seems very rushed to me.

Grandmabatty, "Soon to be ex" doesn't always equate to recently separated. My DS separated from an unsustainable 2 year marriage almost 3 years ago and has been so messed about by his soon-to-be ex and the court schedules, especially with COVID delays, that he still can't get to final financial hearing. Fortunately, the child access was agreed last year, so he has a relationship again, and the child does mix with the new family.

Speaking from a place of experience, the worst thing about Christmas, albeit understandable, is everybody wants to recreate the magical experience with their bit of the family. Poor kids, some of them end up being fed Brussels sprouts 3 days in a row!

You have already told us that they co-parent their two boys. It seems to me that the Christmas arrangements like all other celebratory times will be split between mum and dad.
If they can agree on shared times at Christmas, really, how they spend "their time" with the boys isup to them. I don't see that there needs to be much discussion around it once the dates and "hand over" is sorted.

The children should be able to see both parents equally, if it is what they want and safe to do so, no matter what time of year.

Invite your ex-SIL to your place with the children. Their mum can drop in later or on Boxing Day.

It shouldn't be a matter of either parent's "rights" but what works best and makes the majority, especially the children, happy.

My DS and his Ex have an official Parenting Plan set up listing who has the children and when, including Christmas and many other aspects of their lives eg when they go on holiday letting the other parent know where the children will be. Having said that his Ex sometimes breaks the Plan ?

Drives you mad lucca all this angst over two days

Not really your problem to solve nina the mother and father need to sort the arrangements out themselves, but although the new partner will be around the children I don’t think his family should be in the picture yet although you haven’t said how long the new relationship has been going on

The children should have one day with their mother (and family) presumably she ll bring new partner with her, and then one day with dad (and family) and during that day new partner and your daughter can visit new partners family
There problem all solved