Separated parents, very bitter father

He may be all those things you say (I assume you’re talking about your son in law). Equally He may also be very sad to have his children far away and is maybe being a bit more “difficult” as a result. Dads have feelings too !

You are going to help with the homework because he needs his leisure time? That seems quite selfish to me- as he surely has leisure time when the children are not with him?
I don't understand why he has to buy clothes separate from the clothes they have- but maybe this is part of the court order?
I don't understand how he gets access to the children if he doesn't pay maintenance,unless he has them equal to or more than, the partner?
It is very inconvenient for the kids that the parents don't live close by, but if they have split why does he still need to control the mother?
I don't know if it will ever settle down but it is the children I feel sorry for in this situation.

He is a grown man and father Lucca any feelings He may be experiencing are his problem to resolve and he does not have any right to take that out on others.

Your daughter needs to send one text or email detailing that she will not be sending the children with clothes etc during his parenting time as they have not been returned previously. That during his parenting time the care of the children is his responsibility and as such he must provide for them.
Any neglect of this responsibility will have to be felt with.

Bibbity

He is a grown man and father Lucca any feelings He may be experiencing are his problem to resolve and he does not have any right to take that out on others.

Your daughter needs to send one text or email detailing that she will not be sending the children with clothes etc during his parenting time as they have not been returned previously. That during his parenting time the care of the children is his responsibility and as such he must provide for them.
Any neglect of this responsibility will have to be felt with.

Agree but just wanted to put a different take on the “bad Dad” tale.

This sounds all too familiar. Their dad insisted that our daughter buy school uniforms for them both and complete sets of clothes including socks and pants. They arrive at DD's in clothes that are outgrown and she has to ensure they return to him in "his" clothes or she would be continuously replacing stuff.
He constantly uses them as pawns and gets them to lie to DD. She has proof of this. She has asked on more than one occasion for their passports for various reasons. No chance

I could write an essay about this. The parents only live 20min drive from each other and they have them alternate weeks

There isn’t a different take. He’s bad. The OP and her daughter don’t need to care or concern themselves with the why. If you miss your children you do what’s good for them. Twisting it to say otherwise is the same narrative of telling children
“He’s mean because he likes you”

Abuse is abuse. Only the abuser needs to change.

Thanks for your replies. Of course Dads do have feelings Lucca. So do the children and they need more protection than him. (Hardly our fault if you have had a surfeit of bad dad tales).
He doesn’t send the clothes back keepingquiet so even though it sounds petty not to send the girls up to him with several changes of clothes it gets very expensive for their mother.
Their mum has tried emailing him with concerns about the girls Bibbity but he simply ignores her. (She once booked a doctors appointment for one of the girls during “his” time with them. He went ballistic and told her never to do that again).

Child maintenance has been trundling through the motions for very nearly 7 months now. He appeals and queries every approach to him. We think he may have now reached the end of any appeals. Or not.

Anyway, enough of all this spite. Do any of you have any experience of a “difficult” separated parent, male or female. Does the conniving hatred ever stop? Can a “difficult” parent ever put the children first?

Very similar situation here. Our DD kept the text messages about clothes etc and the abusive replies she got to them. Just as well she did as she was able to use them later in another court case to get a non-molestation order against the ex-SiL. All very much outside our experience of life so we have all been on a steep learning curve about how to deal with unreasonable people. We try to keep positive in front of the children - they love being with their Dad and his extended family, and they don't need to know all the wrangling that goes on behind the scenes.

Child Maintenance is for paying their child’s living costs.
Our soon to be ex DiL has never worked, paid no mortgage, is 'high maintenance' and been fully financially supported by our son. She has to choose....a spa weekend with girlfriends, or clothes for the children. She left the marriage, walked away with 3/4 value of the house, our son with very little - not enough to get a mortgage.
Men have feelings too, they don't see their kids every evening, every weekend, don't get the rough and tumble of family life. He supports the three young children whilst holding his life together, just.

Lets be real about this, we will naturally always support our own child. But at the end of the day, everyone hurts. The fall out of divorce has a ripple effect. We all bear pain, those of us who are mothers of son's probably lose more, as we don't have contact with our grandchildren as much as we used to. Daughters lean to mothers, sons don't lean!!!!

The only reason she needs to email him is for her records.
Of course he’s going to ignore it.

But then she has to shine her spine and stick to her word.

She sends them with nothing.

Alima DD and boys father have been separated 5 yrs he still puts every obstacle in her way when it comes to the children. None of our family can see this ever changing.
He's always needed to be in control since the day they met.
There is no court order only verbal agreement, no maintenance payments either as they share responsibility.

I read posts like this and reflect on how fortunate we are. My son and his child’s mother agreed to co-parent and do so with a fair degree of flexibility. Each provides clothing, toys etc., in their own homes, so the little one has two distinct sets. There is a degree of crossover of course, but both parents take their responsibilities seriously and are committed to making joint parenting work well for each other and the child.

Alima I’m afraid your son-in-law’s actions do seem rather spiteful and as your daughter does know that there are adequate clothes for the children at their dad’s home I would return the children to him in the clothes they last arrived in. It doesn’t bode well for the future though unless both parents can be brought together to discuss their shared responsibilities.

I experienced this sort of behaviour vicariously when I was teaching, all the things you mentioned. It is more common than you think.Generally things calmed down when a new relationship was formed, or the spiteful parent realised they were hurting their own children, but unfortunately some parents could never let go and used the children as weapons. Let the school know about homework, uniform and missed payments for trips etc; they have seen it all before and are generally understanding.
You have to pursue maintenance payments, but with clothes, homework, appointments etc it is best if you can take pre-emptive to prevent the father from using them as ammunition. Most unfair,the other parent escapes their responsibility but at least it avoids conflict and protects the children.

Alima

Thanks for your replies. Of course Dads do have feelings Lucca. So do the children and they need more protection than him. (Hardly our fault if you have had a surfeit of bad dad tales).
He doesn’t send the clothes back keepingquiet so even though it sounds petty not to send the girls up to him with several changes of clothes it gets very expensive for their mother.
Their mum has tried emailing him with concerns about the girls Bibbity but he simply ignores her. (She once booked a doctors appointment for one of the girls during “his” time with them. He went ballistic and told her never to do that again).

Child maintenance has been trundling through the motions for very nearly 7 months now. He appeals and queries every approach to him. We think he may have now reached the end of any appeals. Or not.

Anyway, enough of all this spite. Do any of you have any experience of a “difficult” separated parent, male or female. Does the conniving hatred ever stop? Can a “difficult” parent ever put the children first?

It sounds like a horrible situation for the children. You say the youngest is 7- so they are of an age where they can take some responsibility for their own clothes. Not something I had really considered. His house must be full of them!
To answer your final question, yes. My son and his partner have split but they are still in the process of sorting things out. She has blocked me and won't let me see my granddaughter- I don't know how it is going to pan out. The truth is neither of them are putting the baby first. The situation is making me ill but I can't see any light on the horizon for any of them. I don't know why people have to mess up their lives in this way, and a child has to suffer.

This seems more than spiteful, was he abusive to your daughter too? Putting a child in clothes too small for her and denying her clothes that fit is actually abusive and neglectful. As is all the emotional abuse.

You are absolutely right re the parents feelings, the CHILDREN are the most important in all this and your daughter must want to protect them from all of it.

Can her solicitor not get a deduction of earnings order wrt maintenance? CSA used to be able to via the court but I know things have changed a bit in recent years

Clearly he still is trying to control things - coercive behaviour which I believe is now illegal. I am not sure how you are coping with all this - it's horrible so my sympathy goes out to you and your daughter, This also could be causing so much damage to your GC's. He will no doubt be trying to control the children as well so they might not have any say in what they wear.

Alima

Thanks for your replies. Of course Dads do have feelings Lucca. So do the children and they need more protection than him. (Hardly our fault if you have had a surfeit of bad dad tales).
He doesn’t send the clothes back keepingquiet so even though it sounds petty not to send the girls up to him with several changes of clothes it gets very expensive for their mother.
Their mum has tried emailing him with concerns about the girls Bibbity but he simply ignores her. (She once booked a doctors appointment for one of the girls during “his” time with them. He went ballistic and told her never to do that again).

Child maintenance has been trundling through the motions for very nearly 7 months now. He appeals and queries every approach to him. We think he may have now reached the end of any appeals. Or not.

Anyway, enough of all this spite. Do any of you have any experience of a “difficult” separated parent, male or female. Does the conniving hatred ever stop? Can a “difficult” parent ever put the children first?

Please don’t think I was making light of the situation you are in, I was just saying that often fathers may act up a bit as mothers nearly always get custody. Clearly in this case the father is behaving badly.

Children always get the dirty end of the stick in situations like this and it's about time that both parents got over themselves and gave consideration to the children for a change.

Lucca

He may be all those things you say (I assume you’re talking about your son in law). Equally He may also be very sad to have his children far away and is maybe being a bit more “difficult” as a result. Dads have feelings too !

But should never take them out on his children or use them as weapons.

I had a friend in this situation many years ago - he barely paid anything towards child maintenance and even stopped giving his children £1pw pocket money, saying "Your mother takes all my money off me".

I'm sorry your DGC are being used like this, Alima, and think your DD needs professional advice.

Yeah I was that child. I wrote a long post earlier and the site went down, most probably for the best tbh

He is not bitter and he doesnt deserve to be called a father, as he is not acting like it

Donating your dna does not make you a father

Yes one of my daughters was married to a control freak. When she left him, she moved back to our town 150 miles from where they lived. she came away with very little and her ex refused to pay any maintenance- even CSA couldn’t help as he declared himself a limited company only earning 135 a week! It was rubbish as he earned ten times that and had 2 houses, 2 cars, a van. Daughter was renting and had to live on 25 a month maintenance for 2 kids!! Shocking and no matter what evidence was given CSA were useless.

Fast forward a couple of years and the kids grew. They still saw him. Daughter never objected to that but he listened to them and eventually started paying appropriate maintenance and buying clothes, contributing to activities etc. His argument was he wasn’t going to be forced into it by authorities!!!

Not saying I actually forgave him BUT I kept an open door and it worked in the end. So if I have any advice is not to get embroiled in an argument with the father. Keep on side for the children’s sake.

Child maintenance is separate from access to the child. The access concentrates on what is best for the child rather than whether or not a parent is contributing. Child maintenance is not a reliable service. DD2 got minimum as ex partner claimed benefits. They were collecting from his benefits as he missed payments. Still owes them. Then she got letter saying they were going down - from the minimum - yes right! Then informed he wanted to pay directly to her. That worked well before - not! Then another letter saying he was to pay nil. According to the letter the only reason that in any way fits him is in prison. We wish! Currently waiting 21 days for them to investigate. He doesn't see his son as he won't attend mediation.