It really irks me!

FannyCornforth

The RF really couldn't do that double barrel thing.
It's just like a stage name, particularly in Meghan's case. I doubt if she uses her married name in professional circumstances.

I'm quite sure that Meghan would LOVE to flaunt her 'married name' for publicity purposes - anything at all that would 'increase the financial pulling power' .

FannyCornforth

Surely no-one ever used the 'word' Mizz?
Especially in written form?

If you work in a primary school, you are always referred to as Miss, even if you are a man!

I'm sure that Galaxy can vouch for me!

when did this change ?
when i was at junior school, men teachers were always, sir.
but i agree all women teachers were, miss; even if name was mrs brown.
apparently it dates from when all teachers were Miss .... as they had to resign upon marriage.
think it was changed because of shortages during the war ?

Gosh, so many hell raisers even on Gransnet!

Looool yep, your dad ‘gives’ you away, you take your husbands name, complete loss of identity!

I insist on being called Ms as I’m divorced and depending what mood I’m in, could be my moms nam, or maiden name or married name!

the opening post was so loaded with patriarchal assumptions, i did wonder if it was absolutely genuine, or deliberately goady.
has got a good catch of responses.
when i was at work and addressing a letter to an unknown person, i would begin, Dear Madam.
this was on principle, to counter-act all those Dear Sir letters.
also it was at least as likely to be a woman, more likely if an admin role.
some of the comments on here sound like we are in 1980s, or earlier. in my workplace since 1980s, Ms was always the default female title, for staff and others.
anyone tried Mx, which is similar but non gendered, ie a universal title. i now use it where the box must be filled in.

Ali08

Izabella,
Ms. refers to a woman who has been divorced, which it sounds like you may have, so that would be in fitting with you!
Unless you're currently married, in which case you'd legally be a Mrs. again.

Ms was introduced, and used, by women who didn't want to proclaim their marital, or single, status every time they had to give their names.

Perhaps in the past some divorced mothers retain their married surname to avoid having a different name to their children, although nowadays I don’t think it would matter. Personally, I do not know any divorced lady who has reverted to her maiden name.

I read recently that although Meghan was styled the Duchess of Sussex on Archie’s birth certificate, on Lili’s it was Meghan Markle.

I think I feel more strongly about the Duchess of Cambridge being referred to as Kate because the media alone use the diminutive

FannyCornforth

I've kept my maiden name.
I like it, and dislike MrC's.
If it were the other way around, I would have changed it.
Shallow, I know!

Not shallow at all.
I was truly fed up of the constant misspelling of my maiden name so happily accepted my DH’s, only to find that it was equally prone to misspellings or even conversion to something with only a tenuous resemblance to the proper word.

Agree with you Shelflife. I believe 'Madamoiselle' has not been used in France for quite some years now.

4allweknow

Shoud be Catherine/Megan Countess of ...... Quite a mouthful other than when being written. Media easier to identify which by using actual names. Sure if either women objected media would be told by the official parties. As to loss of Mrs/Miss females have driven this not wanting to be identified as married or not. Not too long until any kind of identification eg male or female will be lost too, we will be a them, they or it!

no, Megan's title is Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Sussex
and Kate (Katherine not Catherine), her title is Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge.

I believe that the title with the given name first is used by wives who have divorced (or been divorced by) their husbands and not remarried.

Catherine with a "C"

Meghan with an "H"

We were forbidden to call women teachers "Miss".
It had to be Madam.

Both my daughter and I carry the title Doctor because of having studied for our doctorates at university. She had a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would be Mrs on their wedding day but at work she would be Dr + her maiden name because that is what is on her certificate and how she has always been known since gaining her doctorate. If I ever remarried I would have the same situation. There are many women in this position, Angela Merkel is known by her 1st husband's surname not by the name of her present husband, she had made her name in politics under the name Merkel. Yet Carrie took the name Johnson even before the ink was dry and styles herself Mrs Johnson.

Presumably "Carrie" had not established herself professionally under her maiden name and was keen to establish herself as Mrs Johnson. That title gave her a status which she did not previously have.

i know that i am older than several people on here, yet i feel i've slipped down a time warp in this discussion.
why would someone's daughter have a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would retain her name at work.
fifty years ago, forty even maybe, in the provinces.
but presumably it was more recent than that.
i don't recognise this world at all. i can't imagine such a man being an attractive prospect.
is it just me. most unusually i feel like i've wandered in lost, from MN.

No, it’s not just you?

It's interesting that no one refers to a single man differently to a married man. And also how bachelor has a positive ring about it, while spinster has a negative ring. I also notice that in Korea women don't change their names. Mountbatten-Windsor is a made up name rather than their original German name. It is remarkably stupid as Mountbatten lost so many lives unnecessarily at sea with his first ship, that the Royal Navy refused to give him charge of another ship, sailors fell off when he changed course and sped suddenly. The Royal Family is a tax cheating organisation with large sums of money abroad. (The Paradise Papers). I think Markle and Middleton have achieved a lot themselves compared to Charles who was taken to court not long ago for cheating on his Corporation Tax and spent his marriage as an adulterer and Ann who was having an affair with Camilla's husband. This family has increased its wealth far, far more than any other Royal Family in Europe. Their PR machine works very hard. Who would want this name?

welbeck

i know that i am older than several people on here, yet i feel i've slipped down a time warp in this discussion.
why would someone's daughter have a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would retain her name at work.
fifty years ago, forty even maybe, in the provinces.
but presumably it was more recent than that.
i don't recognise this world at all. i can't imagine such a man being an attractive prospect.
is it just me. most unusually i feel like i've wandered in lost, from MN.

My Grandmother retained her maiden name at work. She retired in 1965.

[My DD] had a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would be Mrs on their wedding day but at work she would be Dr + her maiden name because that is what is on her certificate and how she has always been known since gaining her doctorate.

I hope she has not been having a terrible time with this man, since then.
He does not sound pleasant.

www.vanityfair.com/style/2016/09/duchess-of-cambridge-kate-middleton-name-title

Silvertwigs

Looool yep, your dad ‘gives’ you away, you take your husbands name, complete loss of identity!

I insist on being called Ms as I’m divorced and depending what mood I’m in, could be my moms nam, or maiden name or married name!

But he doesn't give her away, as the phrase used by newspapers often purports. He gives her in marriage, which is not the same thing at all. That always irks me!

EP he gives her from his 'care' into the 'care' of another male.
Originally, the woman was the property of the male, and anything she owned became his property also.
That irks me.

Kryptonite

Agree with you Shelflife. I believe 'Madamoiselle' has not been used in France for quite some years now.

Nor Fraulein in Germany either apparently, unless specifically requested by the woman. Frau for all adult females.

greenlady102

4allweknow

Shoud be Catherine/Megan Countess of ...... Quite a mouthful other than when being written. Media easier to identify which by using actual names. Sure if either women objected media would be told by the official parties. As to loss of Mrs/Miss females have driven this not wanting to be identified as married or not. Not too long until any kind of identification eg male or female will be lost too, we will be a them, they or it!

no, Megan's title is Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Sussex
and Kate (Katherine not Catherine), her title is Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge.

I believe that the title with the given name first is used by wives who have divorced (or been divorced by) their husbands and not remarried.

Well, the monogram at their wedding was CW not KW.

Casdon

Getting back to the original question, I think calling her Kate Middleton is a way of the press constantly reminding us of Kate’s non royal background. The RF don’t call her Kate, and neither do her own family, and I doubt whether she ever asked anybody to continue calling her Middleton after she married. She should be asked what she wants to be known as, and the press should use whatever that is as her name. It’s different for Meghan in that as an actress she chose her stage name, and still calls herself by that name when working, although she may also prefer a different name for private use.

Probably, Casdon

I noticed the other day that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge were referred to as The Duke of Cambridge and Kate Middleton.

Rude and inaccurate; even if she wanted to retain the Middleton surname it would be unofficially in private and she is never known as Kate.