Woman

Men identifying as women who are sexually attracted to women and want to be called Lesbian! Having your cake and eating it springs to mind. If all the bad side of transwomen wasn’t so damaging to natal women it would be funny.

So even if you didn't find them threatening, you'd laugh at them?

Unfortunately, that shows your true colours.

The thing is, many transwomen identify as butch lesbians before they move on to a trans identity. So there are plenty of trans lesbians around. Which is where for many lesbian communities trans and gay and intersect.

You mean transmen I think.

Funny Galaxy how you ignore the difficult part of anything I say. But I will ask again. If as you say gender isn't important and can't be identified by appearance why does it matter?
People who believe that identify as non-binary, do you want everyone to do that?

I think pretty much everyone is non binary trisher, unless they adhere to a very specific and rigid range of gender stereotypes. And I think not many people do that all the time.

I think gender is very important trisher, I think it's incredibly damaging to both men and women, so I think we should be challenging it as much as possible.

GagaJo

The thing is, many transwomen identify as butch lesbians before they move on to a trans identity. So there are plenty of trans lesbians around. Which is where for many lesbian communities trans and gay and intersect.

Yes, I think that you mean transmen.
While I was referring to natal men who identify as women (ie transwomen) but retain their male genitalia and want to use it to have sex with women.

Trisher as gender is only a social construct, why bother with calling yourself anything at all. Let us go back to biological identity, you are born male or female. After that be whoever you want to be.

M0nica

Trisher as gender is only a social construct, why bother with calling yourself anything at all. Let us go back to biological identity, you are born male or female. After that be whoever you want to be.

Precisely.

thank you Doodledog I enjoy your posts too. I cant understand why it is such a hard slog. We all know that gender is shaped by society and my task along with thousands of others has been to throw away stereotypes which is a lot easier than keeping absurd stereotypes and cutting your body up to make them fit. You can change gender but your sex is flesh and blood and chromosomes and sperm and ova and hormones...its not a feeling. Let men be feminine, let your sexuality be whatever feels right, let women be liberated from permanent make-up and stiletto heels enormous bottoms and tiny waists and big boobs...just let both sexes be free to experience all the varieties of characteristics of being human. And accept the body you are born with, it's great, love it. change the rest. I guess we are still fighting for liberation.

M0nica you are spot on. ?

Make, female. Man, woman. Just because someone with a male genitalia wants to identify as a woman, that’s up to him, just don’t come into the female dressing rooms or lavatories. Same with females they should not go into male facilities. Can’t see why anyone has a problem with it. We can’t change things to please everyone just the majority.

GagaJo

So even if you didn't find them threatening, you'd laugh at them?

Unfortunately, that shows your true colours.

GJ We’ve simply moved this discussion from another thread. I already know what your colours are and you already know (unless you don’t actually read my posts) that I think men are welcome to call themselves what they like, dress as they like and behave as they like as long as it isn’t harmful, or damaging to the lives of the natal members of the sex they aspire to be.
Being damaging or harmful includes taking natal women’s places by virtue of male characteristics and making natal women feel uncomfortable or even frightened by their being allowed into places where natal women should feel safe from men (whatever they are ID-ing as at the time).
This doesn’t mean all transwomen, but the damage done to transwomen by people like Karen White is unforgivable.
The Just Like Us group used pictures of lesbians protesting for their right to same-sex attraction as an example of transphobia. My lesbian friends have told me that their dating apps are around 40% male, that they’ve been told that ‘female penis’ is just like a strap on or getting called TERF for refusing males.

But Mollygo, it is one thing to not approve of someones choices, but quite another to mock them for it and make them a figure of fun. That is inhumane.

No, I don't agree with your opinions. But I stand by your right to have them and don't ridicule you for them.

Galaxy

You mean transmen I think.

I do Galaxy. Thank you for clarifying.

‘Female penis’ ?

Thank you for that GJ. I didn’t actually mock anyone-but hey ho, if that what you want to say I stand by your right to say it and don’t ridicule you for it.

GJ I hope that you don’t find this insulting, but I honestly don’t think that you know very much about trans issues

FannyCornforth

‘Female penis’ ?

While I REALLY do not want to get into a discussion about it, some women do have clitoris that are big enough to look like small penises. And with the addition of testosterone, they will grow bigger.

Our genitalia is not as diametrically opposite to that of the male. Up to between 9 & 11 weeks, the fetus has not developed internal/external sex organs.

Sex is not the monolith we make it out to be.

Fanny, I'm not going into details about my studies in but suffice it to say they were on this topic and I've worked in gay and lesbian groups that supported trans people as part of their work.

Try not to be so patronising.

But it is still genetically male or female, apart from in intersex people.

How on earth was I being patronising?
I said that I didn’t think that you knew what you were talking about

And I've explained where both my theoretical and real life experience of trans com s from.

What is your knowledge base?

Excuse the typos pls. Phone!