Woman

Thanks Doodledog but not to worry. I really think catfishing when I read those posts, or sometimes I even abbreviate that long word to . . .
SueDonim, we don’t have to do ice-breakers or give information about ourselves unless we live in the superior or rarified world
of . . .
I’m interested to see that we are once again on the rights of trans as opposed to men and women. But at least we’ve moved off
g . . . . . . . a and for that I’m truly grateful.
Since we’ve moved on I’m tempted to think it’s agreed that people (generic non-binary term) with the male version of the above should not show theirs (non-gender specific pronoun) off in women’s spaces . . .

trisher It's called ice-breaking Rosie51 it's there to build connections between the people attending.
I'd be glad if you could stop patronising me, it's unnecessary and extremely unpleasant. I know what an ice-breaker is, I just find it a useless, intrusive process that many people would go along with against their inner wishes. I also think in a group of 20 or more it would be impossible to absorb that many irrelevances!

I agree, Rosie. A quick once round the room asking people to say what they would like to be called is fine, particularly if the facilitator gives everyone a sticky label on which to write their name as otherwise everyone will immediately forget it.

I have never met a transperson who hasn't got, adapted or chosen a name that makes their preferred gender very clear. With people who identify as non-binary it can be more difficult, as they usually choose names that are not gender-specific, but even so, I have never encountered a problem.

How often is it necessary to use a pronoun when you know someone's name? If you misgender someone it will only be when they are not there, and the odds are that if someone else knows you have done so, they will put you right.

For those who have chosen non-binary as a day to day change, I would imagine they usually appear and possibly introduce themselves as the gender they have opted for that day. I have met transgender people, but only read about non-binary.

They don’t necessarily change day to day, Molly. I have a friend whose daughter is non-binary. They don’t switch from one identity to another, but are always neither, if you see what I mean.

To be honest, I don’t really understand it myself, as I think we are all non-binary, but it’s harmless enough, and not (in this case) imposed on others.

Isn't it gender fluid people like Pip/Philip Bunce who have woman days and man days? Or Eddie Izzard who goes between "boy mode" and "girl mode", although I think almost 60 year old Eddie's been in "girl mode" for a while now.

Like Doodledog I think the majority of us are non-binary. I don't think I personally know one single stereotypical binary person.

Isn't it gender fluid people like Pip/Philip Bunce who have woman days and man days? Or Eddie Izzard who goes between "boy mode" and "girl mode", although I think almost 60 year old Eddie's been in "girl mode" for a while now.
Yes, this is a different thing from non-binary.

Well I don’t know any of those either other than what I’ve read or seen on TV, so thanks for the information.

I’ve just read back on a few posts as o was out of it yesterday with visitors and I can’t understand themoroblems with pronouns and ice breakers. I don’t refer to myself in the third person therefore I would not need to repeat my name I would say the ingendered ‘I’.

Also with due respect doodledog I was relieved that petunia brought up Mridul Wadhwa in a post called women. In the same way that we could discuss the horrifying attacks in Plymouth being triggered by extreme misogynistic and women blaming sub cultures alive and kicking on the Internet not policed and not labeled terrorist. It is not the first mass killing by an incel group. And this too is linked with the 4000+ % increase in girls wanting to be boys as they are constantly under pressure and bullied into a sexual activity they are not seeking yet are made guilty for not wanting. Their mental problems have been widely reported. I don’t have any answers but they do need help and support though I don’t know how we can give it.
I have just entertained my three granddaughters and their parents... just silently hope to god they will be ok. It worries me which is why I am writing about it at this ungodly hour! There’s no way I could orcwould discuss this with them as three including my DIL have muscular dystrophy (myotonic) the youngest, at two, severely but DIL won’t label her as disabled as she finds it too ‘defining’ even though the child is operating at the level of s 3 month old, so identity politics are surely there. Nor will she accept she is ‘disabled’ or my eldest gdaughter who is a very beautiful 9 year old, in a complex different autistic world. This means they will not allow application for blue badge which my son as the only driver would find useful. It’s more of the side of identity politics that is confusing and unhelpful
I don’t want to go off topic... women and girls - the female sex and our safety and sanity is more than enough.
(It has helped that I have been able to write this down though, So thanks and bear with I hope.)
So onward fellow brave souls that are daring to tackle it

I think if you are meeting with 20 other people from all walks of life, all ages and wiith differing experiences an ice breaker simply gives you the name of someone, a few basic facts and the pronoun they prefer sometimes. I can understand it doesn't need to be used if the people have a shared professional experience.
As I said there were two or three "theys" I encountered, I think 2 would be regarded as she by most of you and one a possible he. Butit wasn't their preference. They were non-binary and not gender fluid.

You have a lot on your plate, grannygranby. I hope you are ok, and by all means use us as a sounding board if it helps .

As regards the ice-breaking pronouns, trans issues aside, I just don't see the point. I was brought up to use someone's name if you are talking about them when they are there. If I'd called someone 'she', I'd have been asked about the cat's mother. I taught my own children likewise. So (neutral question) if people aren't going to use your chosen pronoun, why declare your preference at all? If I'm asked, I will, of course, use people's pronoun of choice, but declaring it in advance seems a bit self-obsessed to me.

thanks doodledog. sorry to lay it on.

as for gender woo woo..I have decided to add (assigned marvellous at birth) at least we can have a laugh.
And when I do see gender pronouns in my mail it tells me the person is either a scared employee of diversity employer or bonkers.