What does the term 'having a profession' mean now?

I just saw it as being something you were trained to do. I think taxi drivers have to pass certain training, have a clean driving license and a hackney cabs license which they have to pay for? and presumably quite a lot of them are DBS checked

as for rentals, I presume they want people who are in steady paid employment

Calling a taxi driver a professional is ridiculous. Next it will be the plumber, the bricklayer, the postman. All worthy and respectable trades and we couldn’t manage without them, but I go with the old understanding of what a professional is. I agree that landlords looking for ‘professionals’ should be perfectly satisfied with prospective tenants in steady jobs with acceptable references. Being a professional is no guarantee of good behaviour nowadays. And of course there are always members of ‘the oldest profession’… ?

I’m with JaneJudge, a profession is something people train for. We don’t need old fashioned snobbery - what’s wrong with skilled tradespeople calling their work a profession.

The sex trade is, for most individuals, a high risk area of work. I draw the line on calling it a profession

I've noticed the same. Isn't it to do with being 'woke', not wanting to offend the taxi driver/plumber/gardener by implying they are inferior to a doctor/engineer/lawyer?

A profession I understood was a job that required extra academic training,and worked to a set of ethics.
Anyone nowadays calls themselves professional, even my window cleaner.
www.psc.gov.au/what-is-a-profession

The Cambridge Dictionary has a definition of profession.
dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/profession
It says jobs which need a special training or skill but not in business or industry.
And one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.
Not sure where that leaves the London black taxi driver, probably not a profession, although it certainly involves a huge knowledge base. Other taxi drivers definitely not.

All the tradespeople I have had in the house lately (quite a few) seem to be reasonably happy, well adjusted people with plenty of work and a good income. None of them appeared to have an inferiority complex about being a tradesperson - and why would they? Professionalism in that sense can be over-rated. I should know - I was one!

a profession is something people train for. We don’t need old fashioned snobbery - what’s wrong with skilled tradespeople calling their work a profession.
Not just something people train for. There are many jobs which require specialised training. An electrician has to keep up with all the latest complex regulations. A machine setter has to learn very precise skills. And so on. They are not professions as they do not require a high level of education, they just require training.

There were only a small number of traditional professions. Their members (originally all men) were highly trained to qualify for membership of their professional body and they usually practised as self employed professionals.

These were - doctors, dentists, vets.

Architects, chartered surveyors and engineers.

Chartered Accountants, actuaries and lawyers.

Then there were professionals who were well qualified but usually employed such as scientists, academics and teachers, publishers, advertising executives, clergymen, senior civil servants and managers.

Next came professions related to the senior professions - nurses, pharmacists, architectural technicians, engineering draughtsmen, book-keepers and legal executives .

Now we have many highly qualified professionals in new areas - IT specialists, experts in logistics, distribution, and cyber security.

Finally there is the definition of "professional" meaning "people who get paid for doing" - eg many of us are drivers, cooks, child minders, window cleaners, painters and decorators, artists, musicians, gardeners etc, but if we don't get paid we are not professionals.

And then there is the oldest profession in the world.

Many of the "experts" much derided by the brexit liars are highly qualified and totally professional in their standards of integrity.

I guess that only two years ago lots of people would have had no idea what a statistician or an epidemiologist or a virologist did, let alone appreciate how important their work was.

I hope that we now have more respect for experts and give their advice the same respect as we have for an airline pilot or an electrician who are highly skilled and that skill should be acknowledged and respected.

When I did Sociology A level many years ago, we learnt that a profession had a professional body that insisted on graduate status for members. The professional body could expel members for a breach of their standards, and if this happened the person would not be allowed to practice. So a doctor can be struck off, a vicar defrocked and so on.

Professionals may or may not be self-employed (eg an accountant or lawyer might work for an employer, and be bound by their contract of employment as regards hours of work, paid holiday and so on) but their first responsibility is to their professional body and this is understood by the employer. So a doctor working for an Occupational Health department is still bound by the Hippocratic oath.

The definition may have changed since then, but I think that was the main one.

It used to be the church, medicine and the law, but I think the definition has widened now.

Thanks Doodledog. I like to feel that my years of hard slog to train and qualify as a solicitor, and the requirement to abide by my professional body’s rules lest I be struck off, vilified and left without a means of earning a living, count for slightly more than an apprenticeship to become a carpenter much as I value a carpenter’s skill and expertise.

it depends on the situation as to what counts for more.
on 9/11 in the twin towers area quite likely the carpenter was more use than the attorney.

Germanshepherdsmum

Thanks Doodledog. I like to feel that my years of hard slog to train and qualify as a solicitor, and the requirement to abide by my professional body’s rules lest I be struck off, vilified and left without a means of earning a living, count for slightly more than an apprenticeship to become a carpenter much as I value a carpenter’s skill and expertise.

No disrespect, but I think that 'counting for more' can be in the eye of the beholder?.

It's undoubtedly the case probably fair to say that in a class-ridden society like ours solicitors have higher status than carpenters - but the term 'profession' is not a value judgement. It describes the basis on which a professional is employed.

A time-served carpenter will qualify as a tradesman/woman/person, but one who has taken a six month course won't, and a self-taught woodworker with artistic flair could make more money and have higher status than many professionals if their work becomes fashionable and sells for high sums.

Slightly off topic, but I read something recently that pointed out that there is nothing wrong with being an amateur, as the word shares a root with 'amore' which means love - so an amateur, far from being an inferior practitioner, is someone who is doing something they love. I liked that.

Professional - adhering to professional standards?

As so many go to university now, does that mean that having a degree or further qualifications will mean that half the working population may soon be professionals?

We may need a plumber, carpenter, gardener, shop assistant more frequently than we need a solicitor or accountant so is their worth diminished by not being accorded the term professional?

Teachers? Of course, at least we hope so.

on 9/11 in the twin towers area quite likely the carpenter was more use than the attorney.
Certainly the rescue workers were very professional.

I spent the first part of my working life in employment law and so I suppose I was considered a professional then. This despite loathing my job and being so irresponsible that even I would not have rented a flat to the young me.

Later in life I retrained to be a gardener. I spent three years studying at a university botanic garden. Both the law and horticulture were equally challenging courses of study in my opinion.

I was treated equally well by everyone regardless of my job/profession/trade. I was but a whole lot poorer but a darn sight happier as a manual worker than I was previously. I was very proud to call myself a qualified and time-served tradeswoman.

Good and interesting post Scones. I know a florist who was a top lAwyer, a personal trainer who was a well respected and liked teacher, a former city accountant who now runs a gym, teacher who became a beautician. And others who made similar changes from profession to other work. They’re all much happier

Thank you Iam64. Your post rings true to me as my class at the botanic garden was made up of a fascinating mix of people who were retraining after other careers. We had intensive care nurses, teachers, actors, estate agents, business people and more....it made for a fascinating mix.

Interesting question,; I’d hope an electrician working in my house was professional, otherwise they could kill me. So can only someone deemed to be in a profession be called a professional?

Jaxjacky, another valid point in the discussion about what being in a profession means in 2021.
One of my grandson’s is mid way through training to be what used to be a Corgi qualified gas fitter. Another trade / profession where qualifications and a professional approach to work is essential or people could die

Calistemon

Professional - adhering to professional standards?

As so many go to university now, does that mean that having a degree or further qualifications will mean that half the working population may soon be professionals?

We may need a plumber, carpenter, gardener, shop assistant more frequently than we need a solicitor or accountant so is their worth diminished by not being accorded the term professional?

Teachers? Of course, at least we hope so.

on 9/11 in the twin towers area quite likely the carpenter was more use than the attorney.
Certainly the rescue workers were very professional.

I don't think that having a degree makes someone a professional. It's more to do with belonging to a professional body that has the power to grant or deny the right to practice, usually via chartership. I think the monarch has to grant the right to award chartered status to professional bodies, but it is definitely regulated - I couldn't set up one for social media posters, and create Chartered Gransnetters or similar?. Most, if not all, professionals will have degrees, but not all graduates are professionals.

I also don't think that it has anything to do with 'worth', or that people who don't belong to them are in any way diminished. As I said upthread, IMO it is more about the way in which the standards of the professional body override those of the employer.

Teaching is not (strictly speaking) a profession, as teachers have unions, rather than one professional body, and the government decides on standards, rather than a separate body (eg imposing a national curriculum that teachers in state schools have to follow). That is not to say that teachers do not work to professional standards, or that they are less 'worthy' than, say, doctors or lawyers who are less accountable, however.

I think that it is because UK is so hung up on hierarchy that people see professions as more 'worthy' than trades, which are in turn 'better' than occupations without certification. These snobberies aren't necessarily reflected in salaries, though - vicars, for example, are often paid more than plumbers, who in turn earn less than some social media influencers (who may or may not have qualifications at all).

In the end, I think that all expertise should be valued. If my leg starts to fall off I wouldn't consult a hairdresser, but neither would I want a surgeon to cut and colour my hair.

Read and noted Doodledog ?