My wife and Daughter in law

Wow. Thats alot of information and my best advice to you is to support your son and DIL to the best of your ability. And try to convince your wife to be more loving and generous to her DIL. Its obvious she does not treat the DiL with the same level of warmth and sincerity as your daughter and that's just sad. Your wife is missing a wonderful opportunity to gift her maternal blessings unto another young woman and the child. She needs to give her best self to your son's family or she will have you both estranged from their lives. What a shame that would be!

I am posting immediately so that you know that your post was quickly read, and yes, as a grandfather you are more than wlecome on GN, I wish there were more of you.

I understand your problem. it is one that occurs frequently occurs on GN, but usually it is the person in your wife's position posting asking us to support her because her children are edging her out of their lives(DiL's, in particular get blamed) or wanting to know whether her demands for access to grandchildren are unreasonable, once a week and ovenight are unreasonable (they are).

What help and advice to offer you I do not know. I think that by being an admirable and supportive husband to your wife, you have also been unwilling to talk about problems at the start, or perhaps, you have always managed to get over issues by not talking about them and now you are faced with a situation where your wife has gone far beyond any acceptable bounds and telling her that is going to be fraught.

The support I can suggest is that social services/health visitor/doctor, should she contact them, will probably not take much notice of what she says. i suspect that MiL like her are part of the burden they must bear and if your Dil is being seen and treated for post-natal depression, they will be monitoring the situation anyway and, anyway, patient confidentiality means they will not discuss the issue with her.

After that all I can suggest is that you need to face up to the situation you are in and tell your wife she is overstepping the line. Start with praise of all she has done and how much help it has been, but then make it clear to her that her efforts are now overstepping the mark.

You could suggest, and I know this will be chancy ground, that as you must now be in your 70s, if you have been married nearly 50 years, that neither of you will be around for ever, and if her health declines, she may not be able to offer all the help she currently offers and perhaps she needs to ween the children off being so dependent on her, so that they are prepared for when she will be unable to help them, no matter how much she wants to.

My heart absolutely fell reading this, your poor DIL and poor you.

Have you tried sticking up for your DIL?

Have you tried telling your son your concerns?

Please don't allow her to call social services.

I wish I had better advice for you but I think deep down you know that your wife's behaviour is completely wrong and your DIL doesn't deserve this..

Time to put your foot down

Oh my word a very well written understandable post and what a problem I feel so very very sorry for your daughter in law especially as you say even your son turns to his mother for help and attention she is up against it I m glad she has you Does she know she has your support she needs to if she doesn’t already
I know you love your wife, but I don’t, so I can be more blunt and I think she has to be challenged she’s obviously got her children eating out of her hands but you don’t need to eat out of them too
You are going to have to come down very firmly with her she sounds a positive nightmare and you and maybe you alone will have to be the one to stick up for your poor daughter in law
Tell your wife if she goes to SS with a cock and bull story you will not support her and you will tell the truth that she is vindictively making it all up She has to be stopped
I see that you have even considered leaving her and I don’t think that’s a bad idea just because you ve been with someone a long time doesn’t mean you can’t tell them enough is enough Maybe warn her if she continues this vendetta you will consider a parting of the ways
Gosh you poor man

I know how very hard this is, but you do need to stand up to your wife. I am presuming that not doing so is a pattern that has become entrenched during your long marriage, but it would do her no harm to know that you believe she is in the wrong - and from your description it does sound as though she is.

And you absolutely must put your foot down over the social services plans - she runs the risk of losing all contact with her son and GC - and so do you. If she will not draw back on this on the grounds that it is plain wrong, then the argument that you might both lose contact with your GC might cut some ice.

It is so sad when a mother makes her children her whole life, because it is inevitable that one day they will need to move on and lead their own lives - the fact that your daughter finds that hard is not healthy; and it is a concern that your son felt he could talk to her about the private matter of his wife's mental state - surely your son must know how his mother is.

My view - for what it is worth - is that you simply need to stand up to your wife. I am sorry that you are having to deal with all this - and it may be too late because these patterns of behaviour are now set in stone. I also feel very sorry for your daughter in law.

I’m so sorry you are having to deal with all this. I think it might be helpful if you spoke to your son and daughter in law directly, without your wife, to let them know you care and ask if there’s anything you can do to help them. I think it might do your son some good to see you supporting his wife.

You sound so sad and worried about the situation . Please don't allow your wife to phone SS. You may never see DIL or GS again .
Your wife may have some good qualities but it comes across as your DIL may be nervous around her . She sounds like a lovely quiet women who has had a lot of upset in life recently. Can your son not speak to his mother ?

You should get your son in private and shake him. He needs to get away from your wife or he will lose everything.

Hello ? and welcome Desperate8, I have read your very clear post and can I say how sorry I am that you are in this unhappy situation.
You need to speak honestly to your wife and tell her how you feel and the risk she is running by being so unpleasant to your daughter in law who has enough to deal with at present.
Please also talk to your son and daughter in law and offer your support,
Sending you best wishes

What a sad story told by a brave man. You need to remind your wife, and yourself, that it is your family and not just hers. Speak to your son and dil, be sympathetic for the huge emotional turmoil of birth and death that your dil has gone through. You are a good man, now be a good father and father in law, your wife's behaviour risks a schism in your family.

Tell your son he is father and husband now and his wife and child come first- or he will end up divorced again.

As for your wife, may I ask why you are married to her?
She is a gossip, entitled, enmeshed, toxic person.
You do not seem to share any of her traits.

Tell your dil that she should run for the hills and you will be there to support her, no matter what she needs.

Your wife raised your kids to be dependent on her even as adults - may I ask if you ever intervened to stop that behaviour?

Tell your dil to run if your son refuses to change his priorities, of course

You are a saint - all I can say is , do give your d.i.law your wholehearted support. I am surprised your son sides with his mother. No wonder she is the way she is. Best wishes and hope things settle down. Lots of good advice here

Please take a deep breath and try to stay calm in the face of all this turmoil. Your poor daughter in law has had a very difficult time and it would be understandable if she had some level of low mood in the face of all she is going through . She requires support and love not villification. You clearly understand this. Your wife does not and although she may have many good points compassion and kindness do not seem to be amongst them. Are you able to speak to your son privately and tell him all you fear ? Are you able to tell your wife that if she persists in this vein your dil is likely to leave your son taking your grandson with her and will not only break her own heart but everyone else’s as well? You do need to be clear with her that you find her behaviour unacceptable . It sounds like you find this hard and have never been able to do so.Perhaps now is the time to find that strength a d to support your son and dil.

It’s absolutely time to put your foot down. You have explained very clearly the situation you find yourself in and every sentence rings true. We hear this story from so many grans just like your wife and of course it is never their fault, always the daughter in law.
You need to give your son a shake. He has a wife and he needs to protect her from your nasty vindictive wife. Perhaps ask him to read what you have written here.
Clearly you are long suffering. Why have you not stood up to your wife? By being so passive you are allowing your daughter to remain dependent on her mother and you have allowed your wife to victimise your daughter in law.
You really must man up and put a stop to this abuse.
You must act, and quickly.

PS you say you do not know how to approach this with her . It is never going to be easy especially if you have never challenged her much . If you can’t say the things you have said here then I would suggest that you try writing it all down again, based on what you have written here, and give it to her as a letter. Concentrate on the issue that is most urgent ie the relationship with your daughter in law and the ‘plan’ to contact social services rather than the whole situation with how she has created dependency with your son and daughter . Make it clear, as you have done, that you love her but can’t support her behaviour. You have every right yourself to talk to social services and contradict her ‘tale’. I’m sure they will see how ridiculous she is being .

It seems your wife will stop at nothing to get her way! She’s a dangerous controlling person to know. My heart goes out to your DIL and yr son to a lesser extent. Cutting contact between yr wife, yr son and dil, will sound drastic, but this situation is drastic…if she will not desist and listen to reason. She simply cannot be allowed to continue in the same vein. Find the courage, make no bones about it…have the talk. Your DIL doesn’t deserve yr wife’s arrogant interference.

Welcome D8 You would a lovely caring man. Your family are lucky to have your level headed presence.

As others have said, I hope you can talk to your - obviously very caring wife and help her adjust to being a C21st Grandmother.
Encourage her into Grans Net - (you may have to request HQ to remove you post) or maybe show her our responses?

The people our children choose are not always what we might expect although this doesn't mean they're wrong.

My late Dear Pa would say, "oh dear that's a fine state of affairs" and was always there for me to talk to.

Dear Mother, on the other hand, would tell me it was my fault & should do this & that & become hostile if I didn't. I still find it hard to discuss things with her.
I've taken a leaf out of Pa's book with my own children.

Aargh done it again . Note to self: Proof read ?

It's interesting to hear this problem (which seems quite common) from a different viewpoint/perspective. I'm glad that you are taking an interest although naturally not keen to challenge your wife. I think you should bite the bullet and have a word with your wife. Social services should be a very last resort. If your wife does go down that route she may find that they make a phone call or do a visit but then close the case. In any event I think they would be unlikely to give full time care of a very young child to someone of your wife's age if this is what your wife might be hoping for. This could however completely alienate your daughter in law.
Parenting is not easy. In many ways it seems harder now than it ever was. And in my experience nobody gets better at something by being undermined and made to feel they are rubbish at it.
I think you could approach it by suggesting to your wife that you as a couple put your heads together and try to think of ways to support your son, DIL and grandson as a family unit. I think it's important to support your son to support his wife and family and you and your wife could do that as a couple.
Good luck to all of you.

Thank you for giving us so much detail. I endorse all the advice given so far.

Regarding conflicting ideas on baby care - ideas change. Your DiL is being an admirable mother, especially breastfeeding successfully after the trauma of a Caesarean. She is giving her baby the very best start in life. Ideas about sleeping positions do change as research makes new discoveries.

Your wife seems unable to see herself as anything but the matriarch, to whom younger members of the family must give unwavering respect. Those days have gone in most families. As you’ll gather from reading posts on here, women and men love their involvement with grandchildren but they have a range of other hobbies and activities in their lives.

I hope you can persuade your wife to retreat from her domination of the younger generation. Having other interests would help her to get things in perspective. As grandparents, being supportive is appreciated but interfering is not. Keep in touch with progress!

You sound a nice caring man Desperate8 and challenging your wife isn’t going to be easy which is why you hesitate. But needs must (and deep down you know this). Talk to her at a good time. Sit down and really communicate. You can do this, you are stronger than you think. Empower yourself knowing it’s for the greater good.

My late mum gave me good advice years ago regarding our adult children. ‘Never interfere. Offer advice only if asked, which won’t be often. You’ve had your turn, now it’s theirs. Just regard yourself a safety net which they will drop into if they need”.

Lovely lady, my mum.

queen victoria was like this apparently.
but she was a queen, so there is some excuse.
however she was also a widow, and maybe grief and loss also distorted her thinking.
i'm sure if albert had still been around he would have reined in some of her extreme behaviour, as he was a kind and rational man, and he'd had to do that when their children were young.
so think on prince albert. now is the time for you to step up and say, this is wrong, you cannot treat people like this.
good luck.

Thank you very much to everyone for taking the time to read and reply to my post.
I have read your replies with interest and you have given me some good ideas for how to proceed although I will take some time first to think things over.
I agree that it would be better for my wife to develop some interests outside the lives of our adult children and Grandchildren and I have some ideas how to support this.
I have no concerns at all about the care of my Grandson, my daughter in law seems to be doing an excellent job in difficult circumstances and it has crossed my mind if part of my wife's plan is the belief that if she can discredit my daughter in law and drive her away then my son my return home with our Grandson to live however the comments have given me some ideas for how to approach this with her.
I am ashamed that I have not challenged my wife and dealt with this sooner and deeply regret not doing prior to now however as I believe is reasonably common for our generation my wife was always the primary carer of our children and although I love my children and Grandchildren dearly it is only in the last 10 years since I retired that I have become more aware of some of her behaviours although I accept that perhaps this maybe my fault if at times my wife has felt alone.
I think I have some ideas now for how to support my son and daughter in law better and also to help my wife and have further clarity that the two can be separate.
Thank you for your time and support