child taken abroad bu son's x partner

My x huband x wife. I was his first wife of 23yrs he remarried and she was 2nd she had two kids with him and she took them to Australia he thinks with her new husband without telling him he had court custody too but he’s heard nothing since that was 8yrs ago. Go to speak to your lawyer but it’s not cheap he’s spent quite a bit and he’s no further forward.

So have the mother and child returned, and did they have a good time?
I'd assume they would have returned by now.

Depends on the arrangement in place. Legally, if you are UK based and there is a child arrangement order to say the child must live with her then she doesn't have to inform him unless she's taking the child out of the country for more than 28 days.

Legalities aside, do you really feel like your grandson is at risk for abduction? Because if neither of you do, and you are seriously considering reporting the mum, I don’t think either of you can truly love your grandson. If you really don’t believe your grandson is at risk, then the very thought of destabilizing his home life is shameful and evil.

Given the history, your son is at best a part time father. Should the mother have informed with detail about the holiday? Absolutely! Should she have made time for the facetime? Of course! But you both knew she was taking the child on holiday. You could have asked questions like adults. She wasn’t trying to hide it.

If I am wrong and this child is at risk for abduction, let me apologize in advance. But if you are pondering this spiteful pettiness because your son’s ego was bruised and you couldn’t “send the grandson something”, please do some soul searching before you attempt to make contact with this child again. He isn’t pawn for revenge. Please do not treat his life as a vehicle for payback.

Bluebell is right.
Why people post questions and then fail to respond to the replies beats me!

Thanks SpanielNanny
I’m too long retired to be up to date but this was my understanding, that ‘reasonable’ behaviour is supported by the children act

Well as whogoesthere hasn’t come back we ll probably never know the answers

I googled it a couple of years ago for a member of my family. If the child lives with its mother and the couple weren't married. The mother csn take the child out of the country for 4 weeks without permission from the Father.

I’m presuming you’re in the UK, do they have a Child Arrangement Order? If it was decided that the child should live with their mother, they can be taken abroad for up to 28 days, without the consent of the father.

I hope I’ve attached the screen shot from the government website correctly.

If your son is doing this just to be nasty it does not bode well for the future. When the grandson is old enough he could refuse to see his father or you if you upset his mother.

Judging by the reaction, I think you’re right Callistemon - he would have tried to stop the holiday. If you only have a weekly FaceTime call with your child, why make such a fuss about them having a summer holiday? Sheer nastiness I think.

Hetty58

whogoesthere, it just seems like a great big fuss about nothing to me. The mother may well be unaware of the law. Your son's wish to report her just seems vindictive.

I agree.

Perhaps she just didn't think or perhaps she thought he'd stop the holiday just to be awkward.

whogoesthere, it just seems like a great big fuss about nothing to me. The mother may well be unaware of the law. Your son's wish to report her just seems vindictive.

But I will check as soon as I am able.

Good morning.
Yes, the vast majority of people manage an annual holiday without any problems at all and most manage access to both parents, if desired, also without problems. The difficulty arises when there is conflict between the parents. I know that removal of a child from the country, even very short term, without the consent of both parents, is abduction under the law. I doubt there would be a prosecution if a parent simply went for a holiday and returned as expected though.
Unfortunately we don’t know the circumstances of the family of the OP. We don’t know if the father has got parental responsibility or if he even sees his child regularly. We don’t know if the mother is preventing him from seeing his child regularly or if any settlement of the situation has been sought from the court.

All I know is the straightforward law which states that removal from the country of a child without consent of both parents who have responsibility, is considered abduction. But according to the particular circumstances the courts may take different views on the application of the law. As I said above, providing the child was returned in the usual couple of weeks, I can’t really see the courts being much interested, but I may be wrong on that.

Most parents manage the ordinary 2 week trip to Spain/Greece etc for a summer holiday without the need for formal permission from the other parent

Iam64, whilst that is true, the legal aspect remains the same. Some parents are just more flexible than others.

In my case, I had residency of our children, father had no access given by the courts after a lengthy court action and yet, when I wanted to take the children out of the country, apply for their passport, etc, I had to get his permission. He hadn't seen his children for years or ever paid a penny in maintenance but he had that whip hand over us. He would never have known if we had gone abroad without his permission but in some countries (like Costa Rica) if something happened to us which we had to stay for more than 30 days, we would have had to have his permission to take the children back home. I could just see that would give him sadistic pleasure to refuse that permission so made sure we did the right thing as I knew the courts would have backed us if he'd been unreasonable before we left Blighty!

maddyone, I’ll accept any info you return with on the law because I know it will be correct.
Being married ensures the birth father has parental responsibility. I’ve never known PR refused to a biological father who applies for PR, even some years after the birth of the child.
Most parents manage the ordinary 2 week trip to Spain/Greece etc for a summer holiday without the need for formal permission from the other parent. It’s in those more rare and distressing situations where parental conflict continues after separation the law is involved. In those situations, it’s often the case that one (or both) parents are unable to cooperate.

It’s different if one parent wants to move to another country to set up home there with the children. That is complicated.

I don’t know what the laws are in the UK, but in Canada, if they divorced prior to the child’s birth, he wouldn’t automatically be in the birth certificate. In some provinces, he has to sign the birth certificate, regardless of marriage.

I think this situation highly depends on the details. If the court has refused him parental rights, or has granted her permission to travel abroad with the child, normal rules aren’t in play. And since the OP hasn’t answered any questions, it’s impossible to know. I’m not sure if the father even has visitation from the OP, other than FaceTime calls, and we don’t know if that’s a courtesy on the mom’s part or what.

Yes, I understand and accept that if the father isn’t on the birth certificate, that changes things because he has no parental responsibility, I think. I will check, I know someone who will certainly know the law on this.
However posters are saying the parents were married and so that would mean the father will have parental responsibility, even if he has chosen not to have much to do with the child, or if the mother has denied him the opportunity to have much to do with his child.
The bottom line is, assuming both parents have responsibility for the child, that consent must be sought before a child is taken abroad, and whether we like it or not, the law states that removal of a child from the country without consent of both parents, is abduction.

maddyone

It doesn’t matter what his story is, if he didn’t give permission for his child to be taken abroad, it’s abduction.
Short of his being in prison.

Assuming he’s on the birth certificate. He may not be

Callistemon’s advice mirrors the suggestions made by many posters. It’s good advice

Looking at your previous threads, whogoesthere, it seems to have been an acrimonious divorce between your DS and DIL.
Yes, she should have asked him about taking the little boy on holiday out of the country, perhaps she didn't think or thought your DS might make things difficult for her and stop the holiday.

My advice would be for him not to do anything, welcome them back but mention what should happen in future.

It would be better for all of you, especially the child, if your DS and ex-DIL could maintain a cordial relationship.

The person we are talking about is the ex-dil and mother of the child

The fact that OP refers her as ex of son speaks volumes

maddyone

If a child is removed from it’s country of residence without the consent of both parents it’s abduction. That is a fact that I’m all too aware of although I actually wish I wasn’t!

Has the child simply gone on holiday for two weeks and will be returning? Do we actually know this? It’s still abduction if the father wasn’t consulted, but if the child is definitely returning it’s not too big an issue.

However assuming the child returns, I would advise that steps are taken to ensure the passport is lodged in a safe place so that proper permission is sought in future.

I did ask maddyone, on the assumption the mother may not be British or may have dual nationality, if she might have returned to her home country with the child, in which case it needs to be investigated.

If it's a holiday then reporting the mother to the authorities might lead to even more strained relations between the parents.

maddyone

Thank you freya. I already said this upthread but it was ignored.
So I will repeat,
Taking a child abroad without the consent of both parents is abduction.
No doesn’t sound like abduction about it.
It is abduction.

He may not be named on the birth certificate as the father.