Turning white characters black

But what do the books actually state about his deformity? I've read what the actor says, what Google says and they say it is scoliosis and crookback or hunchback is just used as an insult.

It’s more than one book it’s a whole wonderful series of books.
His deformity is integral to his character, how it affects him in mind and body.

So does it say he has scoliosis in the book? Is hunchback just used as an insult? Why would his specific back deformity matter? It isn't a medical programme.

Apparently there was a black Abbot in Canterbury as early as the 8th century.

theworriedwell

Does it really matter. He is a character who has strengths but also a disability. He portrays that well. I think he's great in the part.

Yes it matters 😁

But it must have looked like a hump or characters in the book wouldn’t have remarked on it, jeered in the street and so on.

Does it really matter. He is a character who has strengths but also a disability. He portrays that well. I think he's great in the part.

I didn’t mind that historically the Abbot wouldn’t have been black as he wasn’t a real character.
I didn’t like Barak at all!

No it's scoliosis.

Just had a Google and it says in the book he is said to have scoliosis and that's what he has in the programme. It says he is called a crookback or humpback as an insult but it's scoliosis. I don't know as I haven't read the books.

He had something wrong with his back but it wasn’t a hump.

I'm not sure what it's called but he clearly has something wrong with his back in the TV series.

Deedaa you are right about the performance being so good it didn't matter that the actor was black.

I think about it like Hugh Grant is handsome and he often plays a charmer but he's so good at being a charmer that I think he'd still be convincing even if he was just average looking. You could also have someone who is very handsome but doesn't have the charm or charisma or whatever. I don't think the looks are the important part.

Actually they did give Shardlake a hump in this production, and it was commented on several times. I thought Arthur was perfect casting, his own disability added an extra edge to his performance. They didn't make enough use of Guy in the drama. If they ever make the later stories he becomes an important character. He wasn't described as black in the books, just darker skinned, which would fit the actor they chose. The Abbot was far more of a problem. He would really not have been in that position in 1537.

The televised version of Great Expectations a while ago had a black actor playing Mr Jaggers. I had all the usual reservations about him being a 19th Century QC, but his performance was so good (the only thing that was in the whole dire production) that I happily accepted and enjoyed it.

In my rush to reply I got confused. I think it is wrong that black actors and actresses play white historical characters.

Franbern

I have watched the DIsney version of Dissolution - first book in the wonderful Shardlake series. Much of what happens in these books revolves round Shardlake himself having a hump back - not in this tv version.
Also, one of the main secondary characters is a Moor who is a physician. So much of his future problems lies in the fact that his brown face frightens people who see him. So strange, that they cast an African as the Abbott of this imaginary Monastery - but the actor playing this other character was not black!!

I liked the actor playing Shardlake but looked for his hump in vain.Instead he had a withered arm and hand which hung uselessly.

grumppa

*If a character's ethnicity is critical to the plot of a film or play then colour blind casting makes no sense.*

True, Luckygirl 13, and it is essential that Othello, the Moor, is seen to be a different colour from the other citizens of Venice. But does this mean that a leading classical actor who happens to be white can no longer perform one of the great tragic parts? Or will blacking up still be permitted? And if so, how about "whiting up"?

It would be good to hear from any Gransnetters with recent theatrical experience. I blacked up as the King of Tartary in Dick Whittington in 1966, but that hardly qualifies me to venture an opinion!

Well there’s a question.

I thinkI would say that role is closed to them unless the whole play is reimagined (see my earlier suggestion that nobody thought was a good idea😬🤣)

As other roles like Hermia and Helena need height difference for the dialogue to work.

But then again I saw a brilliant production of Twelfth Night where almost everyone was played by the most physically inappropriate actors and it was hilarious.

The magical creativity of theatre. It would be a pity to straitjacket it in the confines of political correctness.

butterandjam

Yes, and they'd all blame Meghan.
🤣🤣🤣

If a character's ethnicity is critical to the plot of a film or play then colour blind casting makes no sense.

True, Luckygirl 13, and it is essential that Othello, the Moor, is seen to be a different colour from the other citizens of Venice. But does this mean that a leading classical actor who happens to be white can no longer perform one of the great tragic parts? Or will blacking up still be permitted? And if so, how about "whiting up"?

It would be good to hear from any Gransnetters with recent theatrical experience. I blacked up as the King of Tartary in Dick Whittington in 1966, but that hardly qualifies me to venture an opinion!

Allira

butterandjam

Whitewavemark2

I long for the day when this sort of conversation never happens, because we no longer see colour, but just the person.

How good would that be?

Would you ever claim you "only see the person" and just don't notice age or gender?

So, in the interests of artistic licence, let's set it in 2025, Henry VIII is an absolute Monarch and is busy beheading people he takes exception to.
There would be panic in some online forums!!

Yes, and they'd all blame Meghan.

I have watched the DIsney version of Dissolution - first book in the wonderful Shardlake series. Much of what happens in these books revolves round Shardlake himself having a hump back - not in this tv version.
Also, one of the main secondary characters is a Moor who is a physician. So much of his future problems lies in the fact that his brown face frightens people who see him. So strange, that they cast an African as the Abbott of this imaginary Monastery - but the actor playing this other character was not black!!

If a character's ethnicity is critical to the plot of a film or play then colour blind casting makes no sense.

But otherwise I see no major problem with it. But we cannot ignore the cultural baggage that inevitably comes with ethnicity and that influences how a character is seen by an audience. In time I guess that will change, but this is a transition period and I am happy to go with that flow.

I expect most of us grew up watching tv, drama, films etc with largely if not totally white cast
The first black people I saw in real life, weren’t GI’s I saw walking in a group in Padgate, a village near Warrington with a USA airbase. They were separated from the white GIs. I was 8, look mummy, black men. No, don’t say black, that’s unkind, say coloured people - said my kind mum, trying to influence me to a more gentle description
Life is very different now than in the fifties but the dominance the white privilege is still with us

Depends how you look at it, I can't watch the drama about the SAS because of the awful accent they e given Paddy Maybe, bit like dick van dyke as a cockney. I'd far rather he had an English accent or was black.

😀

Of course!

There are several films and TV series made by Aboriginal directors in fact.

Allira

And as I said, we need more historical non-white drama. There’s black history, Asian, middle-eastern…Personally I’d like to see something about the Australian aborigines or American Indians, from their perspective and not the white man’s.

If Aboriginal people are characters in films or series on TV, they are invariably portrayed by Aboriginal actors as far as I can tell.

I think there'd be an outcry if they cast Hugh Jackman or Nicole Kidman as Aboriginal characters now - it may have been so in the distant past but became known as 'whitewashing'.

But reading posts on here, not everyone would be horrified if a non-aboriginal person was cast to play the role of an aboriginal, as long as the casting director made the choice because they saw the whole person not the colour or ethnicity and decided that they were the best person for the rôle without even the need for make-up.
Not sure how the aboriginals would feel, but I’m sure I read earlier that, that doesn’t matter.