Freemasons

Jackiest

Yes they do some good things for charity but still a sexist organisation, much like the WI.

Why are they sexist?

What is wrong with having a men only club?

What is wrong with having a women only club?

GrannyGravy13

Jackiest

Yes they do some good things for charity but still a sexist organisation, much like the WI.

Why are they sexist?

What is wrong with having a men only club?

What is wrong with having a women only club?

If you are excluding someone because of their gender then that is sexist. You may think it is acceptable sexism but it is still sexist.

Jackiest

GrannyGravy13

Jackiest

Yes they do some good things for charity but still a sexist organisation, much like the WI.

Why are they sexist?

What is wrong with having a men only club?

What is wrong with having a women only club?

If you are excluding someone because of their gender then that is sexist. You may think it is acceptable sexism but it is still sexist.

Are you are also against single sex schools, single sex lavatories and single sex wards in hospitals?

There is nothing wrong with wanting women only or men only clubs/spaces.

Masons are known wrongly or rightly for being secretive and corrupt. Many of the police are masons.

The history of the Freemasons was, I was told by my amazingly knowledgeable history buff friend (whose special interest was trades and trade unions) was that because Masons had to travel for work there needed to be a way for them to prove they knew what they were talking about and had served apprenticeship time.
Also, if I remember rightly, it was illegal at one point to be a "closed shop" so that a form of secret identification was important.

I can't honestly remember the whole story bit it seems to have started in Scotland and then spread. There was evidence in Scotland much earlier than England apparently.

I haven’t met any corrupt Masons, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
However, I can guarantee that there are more corrupt people who are not Masons, who are definitely secretive about their corruption.

Mollygo

I haven’t met any corrupt Masons, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
However, I can guarantee that there are more corrupt people who are not Masons, who are definitely secretive about their corruption.

Yes I agree 👏👏👏

I see freemasonry nowadays as an anodyne and rather exclusive men's club.

There may be no secrecy but there doesn't seem to be much openness either. Members do not seem to announce the fact or take open pride in it. Joining requires recommendation from 2 existing masons and finding them could be hard for an outsider.

It dates back to the 18thC - Mozart highlighted it in The Magic Flute - and has always numbered dukes and princes among its members.

I don't see that it matters about it being men only and there are prob more effective ways of giving to charity, but it does no harm, which is more than can be said about many quasi moralistic movements.

Jackiest

Yes they do some good things for charity but still a sexist organisation, much like the WI.

Being a male group or a female group isn’t being sexist some things we should be happy to be only for one sex if I was in a group for women who ve had breast cancer why would I want a man in it Likewise if I d been raped or beaten by a man I might prefer a female only group
Women may want to be in a group without male input and likewise the other way round there need be nothing sinister about that

I haven’t come across any corrupt masons ,either. I don’t care if it is all male,though I thought they admitted females now. Not that you would want to join anyway. I go to an all female group, my husband attends a men’s breakfast group. I don’t want males in my group and he probably doesn’t want females in his group. So? Men tend to talk about different things when they are in a group, boring things like various sports . Makes me yawn thinking about them.

Both my late grandfather and dad were masons . They do a lot of charity work that mostly goes unreported. I believe that you can apply to visit the grand lodge in great queen street in London.
I know that they do look after the families of masons who pass away , they have a girls school in Rickmansworth . A lot of organisations are quite secretive the buffaloes are another one

BlueBelle

Being a male group or a female group isn’t being sexist. Some things we should be happy to be only for one sex. If I was in a group for women who’ve had breast cancer why would I want a man in it?
Likewise if I d been raped or beaten by a man I might prefer a female only group.
Women may want to be in a group without male input and likewise the other way round there need be nothing sinister about that.
Well put BlueBelle
The problems arise when people lie about what they are in order to access a group.

Bukkie

Masons are known wrongly or rightly for being secretive and corrupt. Many of the police are masons.

And how is that relevant, or important?

TerriBull

Am I alone in finding the whole rigmarole around so called "ladies evenings" patronising, for a start I prefer to be known as a "woman" I refer to a lady as a form of deference when referring to older wonen than myself or speaking about someone I don't know. My late father in law organised via his golf club so called "ladies nights" a more misogynistic load of old school dinosaurs it would have been hard to equal, thankfully my husband is nothing like him the mould was well and truly broken. The speeches were usually of the order of "we'd like to thank the ladies for letting us out" like they were some sort of penned in herd animal. God these events were dire, thankfully the female members of OH's family refused to go after a while, so he couldn't make up a table.

I went to one of these events and found it toe curling too. Not for me and thankfully not for my DH either!

My late husband was editor of a local newspaper, and was invited several times to join the Masons. He was quite a wit and refused, declaring "I wouldn't want to join to a club that would have me as a member". (I think he got that quip from Groucho Marx though!)

I never said excluding someone purely because of their gender was right or wrong. I will leave that for you to decide. But excluding someone from an activity where gender is not critical to that activity because of their gender is sexist. If you excluded someone because of their colour then that would be racist.

BlueBelle

Jackiest

Yes they do some good things for charity but still a sexist organisation, much like the WI.

Being a male group or a female group isn’t being sexist some things we should be happy to be only for one sex if I was in a group for women who ve had breast cancer why would I want a man in it Likewise if I d been raped or beaten by a man I might prefer a female only group
Women may want to be in a group without male input and likewise the other way round there need be nothing sinister about that

Once again, I agree with you, BlueBelle

Friends and family were Masons. One worked for a lord looking after his finances, another was a Royal chef. The financier was in some Grand Lodge in London where Royalty were members. They seemed to do some good charitable work but seemed disparaging of 'foot soldiers ' ie lower ranking masons. I don't think they were people to cross and definitely looked out for their own.

NotSpaghetti

My next-door neighbour was a lodge master.

I have very mixed feelings but a kinder person you wouldn't find.
He told me they have been helping wives and families of deceased and incapacitated members for years. I know they have done a lot by way of trying to help unemployed into work and homeless into housing because his wife told me about some of the things they have done locally as "businessmen" (without saying they were masons i think).

I think it's a bit of an odd "boys club" but no longer think it's sinister.

It strikes me as Rotary with rituals!

I think that’s exactly what it is.

Crossstitchfan

Bukkie

Masons are known wrongly or rightly for being secretive and corrupt. Many of the police are masons.

And how is that relevant, or important?

Or even, true?

I've heard the Masons called 'a conspiracy of mediocracy', and this seems to be the main objection. They promote the interests of fellow/l-masons, eg recommending them for jobs.

My husband was in the Lodge for several years but worked away a lot so couldn't always attend the meetings - we enjoyed the social aspect of it but he did find it a bit boring at times and never rejoined. He was also in the Lions and President twice over the years - again the social side was fun but like the WI (which I was a member of for many years) it became very 'cliquey' and more often a case of you were either in the 'circle' or outside of it so we gave up! All do great work for charity and good causes though.

There’s some ritual. (If the dagger and trouser leg stuff is so secret, how come everyone knows about it?) Nothing as odd as the Christian stuff though - I mean, literally eating your saviour’s body FFS!!! Like any club, they do each other favours, and COULD plot bad things, but I don’t think they do, much :-)

Mauduit24

Both my late grandfather and dad were masons . They do a lot of charity work that mostly goes unreported. I believe that you can apply to visit the grand lodge in great queen street in London.
I know that they do look after the families of masons who pass away , they have a girls school in Rickmansworth . A lot of organisations are quite secretive the buffaloes are another one

When my husband, a Freemason, died, I was contacted by his Lodge Almoner who asked if I was all right, whether I needed anything, and he gave me a contact number for if I felt that speaking to anyone would help. (For the cynics, I was not asked for money during this conversation).
I didn’t need to take them up on it (I have a brilliant family), but I thought it was lovely of them to bother about me. I was also contacted again a few months later by the same person who was making sure I was still ok.
Incidentally, the Lodges hold annual ‘Ladies’ nights’ which are a way for the Masons to thank their wives/other halves, for supporting their husbands/partners throughout the year. Fabulous food and a gorgeous gift. I loved these dinners, and my Ladies night in 1974 was an evening I shall never forget.
Freemasonry gets bad press, but only by those who, in the main, know nothing much about it, and have most probably tried to join and been refused!

I think a lot of organisations get cliquey over time.
I was invited to join Inner Wheel but after attending the three lunch meetings you could visit before deciding, I knew it wasn’t for me.
That particular branch is in danger of closing because younger people aren’t interested.
I think the average age is very near 80 and of course members keep dying!